WT in MMA

[It is Fake]

I posted it here for a reason. I have been supporting this site for almost 2 years, and the overall opinion is that Dim MAK is worthless and George Dillman is a con artist and fraud. I could have posted this in the adolesent playground areas elsewere on this site but am not interested in another squid fest of Chun haters and Avd. D&D theory jokes.

You say you want to stop fraud and BS, so lets decide, is WT a fraud or not.

There you go kempofist.

MABS isn't supposed to be a haven or a safety net.

If you want some safety try the CMA styles forum.

[sasquatch989]

OK, just watched the video.
Where exactly was the WT? Looked like boxing to me. Despite that, the competition couldn't have been that fierce, given that everyone else was most definitely using the WT and getting their asses beat.

Dr. TZ, that is hardly MMA, let alone fighting. Get over it, WT is by retards for retards.

[RunningDog]

Is WT a "questionable martial" art or is it solid?

I posted it here for a reason. I have been supporting this site for almost 2 years, and the overall opinion is that WT is worthless and Leung Ting is a con artist and fraud. I could have posted this in the adolesent playground areas elsewere on this site but am not interested in another squid fest of Chun haters and Avd. D&D theory jokes.

You say you want to stop fraud and BS, so lets decide, is WT a fraud or not.

Well you've posted a video of a WT chap who's also a reasonable boxer. That doesn't really negate the first hand evidence of many, many posters who have experience of WT, plus a load of videos of compliant silliness.

If you're changing your tune to say that WT could be a useful, if minor, addition to a martial artist's training, maybe some will agree with you. Maybe even I will. But you normally say it can "devastate all other styles," to quote one DTT. Do you still maintain that?

[Gezere]

OK, just watched the video.
Where exactly was the WT? Looked like boxing to me. Despite that, the competition couldn't have been that fierce, given that everyone else was most definitely using the WT and getting their asses beat.

Dr. TZ, that is hardly MMA, let alone fighting. Get over it, WT is by retards for retards.

Seconded

I watched the video and don't see the WT nor any WT concepts in play. I saw BOXING. If WT is suppose to improve boxing I think I will just stick with boxing. The quest for the WT messiah goes on.

[DevonHartigan]

Okay.
Henning Daverne(btw he is danish, and since I roam a danish MA forum, I happen to know a little about him) is an excellent fighter no doubt there, but as you said yourself, the part you are referring to is boxing, nothing more, nothing less.
From 1:39-2:20 you see the only thing remotely familiar to MMA, but you can easily see that this is two WT fighters fighting(plus this part it is claimed to be 100% choreographed by a "well respected" person who was there, but you can't believe in anecdotal evidence so this I see as BS)). WT techniques mostly work against other WT fighters because they all fight in the same crappy manner.

And this video is like all other freaking WT videos. Some blurry UFO shit, in crappy quality, where you can't see the fights in full length.

DTT you are bringing absolutely nothing new of value to this discussion, plus the thread title and the conclusion you are trying to draw, is IMO misleading.

[Lu Tze]

Dominating an inexperienced opponent with aggressive striking is a rather common tactic in in the lower tiers of amateur boxing, to be fair the guy didn't look half bad... I've seen a lot sloppier boxers win matches.

[Wolf]

Is WT a "questionable martial" art or is it solid?

I posted it here for a reason. I have been supporting this site for almost 2 years, and the overall opinion is that WT is worthless and Leung Ting is a con artist and fraud. I could have posted this in the adolesent playground areas elsewere on this site but am not interested in another squid fest of Chun haters and Avd. D&D theory jokes.

You say you want to stop fraud and BS, so lets decide, is WT a fraud or not.

If you're really after this kind of discussion with WT make your posts here...
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=101

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

So if a WT person goes into a Boxing match, then his WT turns into Boxing (and thus Boxing gets the credit)? His training is what matters, that is what produced the "look". It looked like boxing because he modified the way we move to fit the rules. Covering up with gloves and trying to back and bob and weave results in more lifting punchs and hooking punchs. Sorry you all are misguided to think all we do is chain thrust punch.

Principle wise he chain-hooked, he fought from a knee-in adduction style stance, turning around the WT centerline, as well as from our back stance in some views. He chased when they ran, he knocked people down, repeatedly.

The responces to this so far shows exactly why few WT are interested in going into your sports to prove anything. If we win, it has nothing to do with our training, if we lose it has everthing to do with it. "It looks like he sport he went into" is just avoiding the issue of who trained him. The old "inexperienced opponent" excuse would negate most of the Early UFC victorys by Gracies, since those opponents had no Grappling experience, the "looks like boxing" doesn't fly becuase the techniques in question CAME FROM WT TRAINING NOT BOXING TRAINING. The notion that he is the only person of this caliber is also false, he is the only one on video, to date, and one of the few that went into the ring, there are many as good. The grainy UFO video is because WT was doing this back in the Betamax era, before many of you where born.

The experiences of a very few quiters doesn't count for much to me. Only RunningDog/TomasDagon have done WT for any length of time(that I know of on here). Bashing WC to prove a point about WT is like bashing Aikido or Judo to prove something about BJJ.

"Dominating an inexperienced opponent with aggressive striking is a rather common tactic in in the lower tiers of amateur boxing, to be fair the guy didn't look half bad... I've seen a lot sloppier boxers win matches."

LuTzu, you generally are much more logical, but judgeing the loser to be inexperienced only because a Tsunner is beating him (well all 3 on this clip, 7 in his total record) seems using a pre-concieved belief to rationalize what you are seeing. We do not know anything about the experience of the partys in question. The clip shows only the final winning hits, not the whole fight, so we do not know what led up to it. We do know that the winner was WT.

[RunningDog]

If you're really after this kind of discussion with WT make your posts here...
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=101

Go on Doc, I promise to be civilized.

[Fantasy Warrior]

Covering up with gloves and trying to back and bob and weave results in more lifting punchs and hooking punchs.

He was trying to bob and weave because that's dictated by the rules???? Or because it's common sense and not a big part of Wing Chun, lol. So basically you are saying that he used round-line punches because he was too busy trying not to get hit to use Wing Chun punches, well I guess we can agree on something then.

Principle wise he chain-hooked.

Whilst simultaneously avoiding the principle of central dominance, great Wing Chun principles in play!

He chased when they ran, he knocked people down, repeatedly.

I agree, that's clearly Wing Chun...

[Askari]

Hi DTT,

Its not great but also not an absolutely terrible video. I see the straight lead and the slide in the footwork during the boxing, so there is some __ing __un there.

The two guys jumping at each other and chain punching the head gear at least is contact oriented, but annoys me because I know what will happen to them as soon as they spar with someone who doesnt wear headgear and knows how to fade, move and work angles.

What was that ass in the air double leg that guy attempted? He should be shot for a lousy takedown like that. But at least it is contact oriented and is better then a lot of shit.

All the small good aside; the killer is the middle of the video. That compliant "Sifu is god" crap just pisses me off.

[Jorec]

We do not know anything about the experience of the partys in question. The clip shows only the final winning hits, not the whole fight, so we do not know what led up to it. We do know that the winner was WT.

So, if the loser isn't just a can, who is he? Was this some big name amature fight back in the day? Did this WT fighter destroy someone who was much better then him or something? Or is simply as look looked, the guy who was much, much more aggressive then the other won.

The fact that he does WT doesn't prove anything when it, at the very least appears that he was simply super aggressive in his fighting.

I'll just say now that I hold nothin against WT, I just think this is a terrible way to try and justify it being useable.

[Tom Kagan]

Setting aside the style's problems for a moment ...

It's all boxing. In the case of the 'nun-who-must-not-be-named' style, it would still be boxing ... boxing Southern Chinese style, that is.

So, valid questions here would not be notions of what it should have looked like. Good questions would be along the lines as follows:

1. Did he really only train the same regimen as anyone else in WT?
2. Did he have moderate to extensive experience before changing his regimen to WT?
3. What was the quality of his opponents?
4. Could he have been trained significantly better using a different regimen than WT?

I can already speculate what the "company line" answers to the above questions will be. However, it would be interesting if the answers in this one case could be determined objectively.

[DevonHartigan]

...

The responces to this so far shows exactly why few WT are interested in going into your sports to prove anything. If we win, it has nothing to do with our training, if we lose it has everthing to do with it. "It looks like he sport he went into" is just avoiding the issue of who trained him. The old "inexperienced opponent" excuse would negate most of the Early UFC victorys by Gracies, since those opponents had no Grappling experience, the "looks like boxing" doesn't fly becuase the techniques in question CAME FROM WT TRAINING NOT BOXING TRAINING. The notion that he is the only person of this caliber is also false, he is the only one on video, to date, and one of the few that went into the ring, there are many as good. The grainy UFO video is because WT was doing this back in the Betamax era, before many of you where born.
...

[DevonHartigan]

So, if the loser isn't just a can, who is he? Was this some big name amature fight back in the day? Did this WT fighter destroy someone who was much better then him or something? Or is simply as look looked, the guy who was much, much more aggressive then the other won.

The fact that he does WT doesn't prove anything when it, at the very least appears that he was simply super aggressive in his fighting.
...

This is in fact the only real advantage I give to WT'ers, their aggression. It is their foolhearted confidence and aggression that makes it work, not so much the techniques. Aggression seems to give advantages in so many areas of life. Let it be poker, fighting, or basic survival.