Bjj and the smaller vs larger opponent mantra.

[Niceguy]

I have been grappling and training bjj for about 3 years now and often you hear the mantra that bjj was designed for a smaller opponent to defeat a larger one (albeit less skilled)

But really isnt this just a true with the other fuctional martial arts like boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, judo, sambo?

For example, cro-cop Ko'ed Bob Sapp despite almost a 150 lb weight difference (220 vs 370) with his kick boxing skills.

Evander holyfield was a pretty small heavy weight and had great success against other larger boxers, who btw were also pretty skilled fighters.

Now dont get me wrong, I love BJJ and think its an excellent martial art, hell i train it and Muay Thai myself, that being said, does BJJ stylist really have the much of an edge against larger opponents then a well trained Muay Thai guy or a judoka?

Discuss.

[DayOfTheJackass]

its all very hard to quantify anything related to this kind of speculation but to generalise, I do get the impression that it makes a huge difference if the specified 'larger person' knows the raw basics of grappling.

[Anna Kovacs]

It's honestly easier to outgrapple someone bigger then you then it is to outstrike them. if i had to beat up some 6'3" 200 pound dude I'd rather take him down then deal with it on my feet, even though I am by far a prefered striker.

[Jeice]

It's honestly easier to outgrapple someone bigger then you then it is to outstrike them. if i had to beat up some 6'3" 200 pound dude I'd rather take him down then deal with it on my feet, even though I am by far a prefered striker.

What she said, I'm a wee fella at 150 lbs, and despite being primarily a striker, against a bigger guy I feel more comfortable on the ground. Its more predictable and forgiving than trying to slug it out standing, different shit to avoid and still dangerous yes, but where I'd feel the better chance is.

[Cassius]

Hi yall.

[Bugeisha]

Ditto to that. I only have VERY basic grappling knowledge (if it can even be classified as that), but I've managed to choke out several larger and stronger opponents. No, not at the same time.

[Liffguard]

I'm a pretty piss-poor striker anyway but even accounting for that I still get tooled by larger guys on my feet. On the ground though, even if my opponent is larger and more skilled I can still usually hold my own, or at least survive for a reasonable amount of time. So yeah, I personally find the ground more forgiving when fighting a larger opponent.

[NotAKimura]

striking is more natural than grappling for most people. grappling involves being very close to your opponent which most people aren't used to and/or don't like.

it's possible to strike effectively with no training, while grappling effectively requires at least some training.

[sheltrk]

I think most people would agree, in general:
1) If two fighters are equally skilled, the bigger fighter wins.
2) The bigger the size gap, the greater the skill gap required for the smaller opponent to win.

I would argue that in stand-up striking, greater reach is an important advantage. Bigger people tend to have longer arms and legs. Theoretically, the bigger fighter can stay just outside of the smaller person's reach and still land blows.

In grappling, the reach advantage is mitigated (well, mostly). A bigger person still will usually be stronger, and can get leverage more easily, hence they do retain some size advantage, but size would seem to be somewhat less important than in stand-up striking.

Therefore:
If size gap is less important in grappling, then less skill gap is required for a smaller fighter to out-grapple a bigger fighter.

P.S.
:new_birth to me!

[Goju - Joe]

Depends on skill

last week I grappled someone close to 400 pounds.

Upa's and stuff like that were no good.

However I was able to use a half gaurd escape which Injust learned.

Besides trying to take the back and going for a choke there wasn't much I could do

and I am 6 1" and 208

[JohnnyCache]

It's not that the size gap matters less, it's that the skill gap between trained and untrained is greater. I think an un- or semi- trained striker has a better chance against a trained striker then an un- or semi- trained grappler vs a grappler.

[RunningDog]

It's not that the size gap matters less, it's that the skill gap between trained and untrained is greater. I think an un- or semi- trained striker has a better chance against a trained striker then an un- or semi- trained grappler vs a grappler.

Not sure about that, take top boxers for example, it looks simple but they're drilling and sparring for years: timing, awareness, striking and evasion techniques are incredibly finely tuned. It's a totally different skillset, but you can't say it's an inferior skillset.

[Firebrand]

Just to add fuel to the fire. Supposed you are fighting a 400 pound guy with a low base with rather slow hands and is slow on his feet. Lets say you are a trained boxer with fast hands and some grappling. Would you rather try, and I do mean try, to take it to the ground or duke it out?

Lets say you are on the street and you manage to take the guy to the ground hard. The guy outweighs you by 100 pounds. You are still standing. Would you rather do some tap dancing on the guy's body or take your chances on the ground? BJJ is a great art. But I don't know that grappling, especially grappling on the ground, is necessarily the only option against bigger opponents.

[JohnnyCache]

I didn't.

I said the gap between trained and untrained people was wider in grappling ... ie, it takes less time to learn to out-grapple a non-grappler then to out strike a non-striker.

The "martial arts promise" of being able to offset your small size is filled sooner by grappling, I really think that.

That's not the same as it being "superior" or the "only option"

[RunningDog]

The "martial arts promise" of being able to offset your small size is filled sooner by grappling, I really think that.

I misunderstood you above. That's definitely true. Even just intensively drilling/sparring with a few simple takedowns allows you to dump people on their heads/ribs, and that level can be reached in a few months. The floor makes a very handy weapon.
With the same amount of drilling of striking a smaller player is still very unlikely to get the KO.