How Rank is Handled in the Bujinkan.

[Joe Doggs]

Check this out There is an interesting discussion over on MartialTalk about Bujinkan ranking and Mega-dans. I see our friend Ben Cole is weighing in with his superior intellect. It is an interesting read. The thread seems closed or locked for now. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44065

[leere_form]

you know what's funny?

that people study ninjutsu and have serious conversations about any part of it.

[MaverickZ]

You know what's funnier? This post;
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...1&postcount=67

When I read MJS and then Martial Talk Grandmaster the first thought that popped into my head was "Mega Jesus San?!?!"

[plasma]

You know what's funnier? This post;
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...1&postcount=67

When I read MJS and then Martial Talk Grandmaster the first thought that popped into my head was "Mega Jesus San?!?!"

Oh man apparently, he a Super Moderator .

[leere_form]

polite? respectful?

lame. that's why i'm a bullshido member.

[Rubber Tanto]

Oh man apparently, he a Super Moderator .

Maybe he'll save us from the clutches of the evil punchers from the planet lunge!

[jkdbuck76]

Did they block the thread once they found out bullshido was looking at them?

weird....

[Don Gwinn]

Good God, did you go back and see what Ben Cole actually said should happen to that "Fallen Ninja" guy for questioning bujinkan ranks? First he told him he deserved to be hit in the head. Well, OK, it's a martial art . . . . I guess if that's your best argument, that's the best you've got.

But when some of the other ninjers took exception to the comment, he endeavored to explain that what he said wasn't so bad because his teachers had taught him that when a student asks a question and doesn't seem to understand, the student should be "told to punch in for a technique, then knocked to the floor."

"Told to punch in for a technique," according to the MartialTalk ninjers, means Ben would tell his student to do a choreographed lunge punch with the intention of letting Ben hammer him.

In other words, the answer to all questions in Ben Cole's dojo is "your instructor is neither educated enough to answer your question nor man enough to face you in a fair fight."

[It is Fake]

There is simply no way for SeattleTCJ to "pass" a test that I give him, but he may easily pass a test that his teacher gives him. Is it because I am a "bully"? Or because what we both look for is different? I proffer the latter. And this is precisely what Soke has empowered *EVERY* Shidoshi worldwide to determine individually.

Then ninjas wonder why people make fun of them, no quality control.

Yes, I know same with kung fu (as virus will shortly point out) but, this is a Booj thread.

[plasma]

Good God, did you go back and see what Ben Cole actually said should happen to that "Fallen Ninja" guy for questioning bujinkan ranks? First he told him he deserved to be hit in the head. Well, OK, it's a martial art . . . . I guess if that's your best argument, that's the best you've got.

But when some of the other ninjers took exception to the comment, he endeavored to explain that what he said wasn't so bad because his teachers had taught him that when a student asks a question and doesn't seem to understand, the student should be "told to punch in for a technique, then knocked to the floor."

"Told to punch in for a technique," according to the MartialTalk ninjers, means Ben would tell his student to do a choreographed lunge punch with the intention of letting Ben hammer him.

In other words, the answer to all questions in Ben Cole's dojo is "your instructor is neither educated enough to answer your question nor man enough to face you in a fair fight."

+rep for Gwinn for discovering the deadly secret of the Bujinkan.


Translations for non-ninjers. The secret of Ben Cole, Dale Seago style Bujinkan techniques is to have your "students" attack you with cheoegraphed and telegraphed straight punch then freeze at the apex of the punch. Then let your instructor do some "technique." This sometimes involves some "Uke Magic*".

* Uke Magic: Popular in Bujinkan and Aikido style arts, when the "attacker" throws themselves making the defender look like he did solid technique.

[Virus]

The term "punch in" may have further comedic potential.

[Rock Ape]

Oh man apparently, he a Super Moderator .

That makes him invisible.. Obviously

[Rubber Tanto]

Hmm...
in all seriousness, I actually tried tackling this topic a long time ago on MArtial Talk:

It started with this comment:

On another subject for a rant....
Hatsumi has said that he gives out rank sometimes earlier than maybe the person deserves it. They have to then grow into it.
Really, rank is a distraction. It is a gift, a compliment, a pat on the back and encouragement to keep going.

My reply was this:

Don, I understand where you are coming from, and I mean no disrespect by my next question, but don't you think this is where the problem stems from.

You yourself have just stated in posts in THIS thread that there are bujinkan instructors teaching others techniques they themselves do not yet fully understand at best , or know at worst. Correct?

So...Why are people training with this instructors? Isn't it because the rank that hangs around their waist or sewn to their Gi makes the newcomer trust them to be competent?

If I walked into a dojo and saw an instructor with the rank of Godan, shouldn't it be perfectly logical for me to assume that what he has the ability to teach as a representative of the bujinkan is that of what Hatsumi would consider to be godan level?

As I mentioned to Dale once, we had a foreign student attend our dojo once, who at 5th kyu and he could not perform a proper ukemi, or breakfall and had no understanding of balance taking. It had been the first time the young man had trained outside of his own dojo was very upset and confused when he saw the skill level of the students around him. This is not right. This person paid their hard-earned money to learn and grow just like you and I do. Surely there has to be some way to regulate the level and quality of instruction for each rank. I understand the idea behind giving a student a rank for them to grow into it...but I believe this becomes a dangerous exercise once the ranks fall into a place which gives someone the licence to teach our art.
Kind regards
Nick

The reply I recieved was this:

Rubber Tanto,
Welcome to martialtalk. I hope your experience here is an informative one.

In answer to your post, I think the subject you raise deserves a thread of its own. In this thread my message was not to take on the way Hatsumi does things, but to get people who read this and make a big stink about their rank to reconsider. I think they should brag less and try to work harder to be worthy of what they think Hatsumi believes them capable of.

In otherwords...a whole lot of fuck all...

[It is Fake]

Well, at least he said "welcome to Martial Talk."

Look at the positives man...Damn!!!:new_argue

[Joe Doggs]

In response to RT post #13 which I found quite perceptive

Prime example of one of the things I found annoying in the Booj. In otherwords could never get straight answer of what was required of me to practice, improve etc. Made me suspicious that alot of the stuff was being made up as people went along.

JD