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Bruce Lee rates YOU

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    #76
    I don't think any of that is legal in san shou.

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      #77
      lol its not but in fights san shou may not be useful when you just started so my friend taught me these hits so i can self defence

      Comment


        #78
        in real fights where my life is in danger i will use these hits

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by JustaFighter
          For what it's worth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqCNy71unKw

          It's Dan Inosanto talking about Bruce Lee creating JKD. I like this vid clip because Dan talks about BL as a human. Not some demi god. He also tries to explain why BL came to his opinions about other MAs.
          Great vid. It also briefly mentions the list in this thread!

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by truepwrz
            in real fights where my life is in danger i will use these hits
            Yeah. and maybe later you can hit puberty as well

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Sophist
              Kimura, cross-trained in boxing and Kyokushin karate, was fighting Valdemar Santana, cross-trained in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, boxing and capoeira under Vale Tudo rules in 1959, after Santana's victory by knock-out over Helio Gracie in 1958. Vale Tudo fighters weren't unaware of the virtues of cross-training before the UFCs; it's just that the Gracies were pushing the virtues of BJJ, an art unique to them, and cross-training wasn't the message they wanted to send.

              Lee wasn't even looking at grappling, according to Gene Lebell, until 1966 and the set of the Green Hornet, the same year the already-accomplished Jon Bluming was proposing to Mas Oyama a form of fighting that incorporated both stand-up Kyokushin karate and judo with groundfighting. Lebell says he only worked out with Lee 10-12 times, showing him what he did, and that Lee gradually warmed to grappling's possibilities. In 1967 Lee seems to have begun grappling training with Hartsell.
              http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ray.d8/article12.html
              http://www.realfighting.com/0102/jonblumi.htm

              We can go back much further in finding precedents in uniting striking and grappling arts, too. Bartitsu, founded by E.W. Barton-Wright in about 1898, sought to blend boxing, cane-fighting, savate and judo/jujitsu in such a way that the mastery of one art could be used against a person skilled in one of the others if needed.

              He was far from the first to look at taking the best from several arts, and unlike most of those I've mentioned above, he didn't take his hybrid style into competitive fighting. Have you any evidence he ever competed under a Vale Tudo style ruleset?

              Certainly, he understood the need for MMA well before most of the rest of the world, but he wasn't the first, nor has his school of thought been a primary influence on today's fighters. "The father of MMA" is merely a tag to drum up interest in MMA using Lee's fame - a fame acquired from his acting, not his fight career.
              All valid, yet you miss the point completely.

              Bruce may not have been the first, but his approach was more than just mixing bits and pieces from separate arts. First they had to blend - that is to say logically fit together. Secondly, they had to be tailored to the needs of the individual - in other words a technique from one art may only work for one person but can still be part of that persons JKD. This was revolutionary.

              All the above mentioned are fine masters - but few heard of them at the time, at least in a global sense. What of Martin Burns who was advocating boxing and wrestling in the 1900's? What of teh various Tai-Chi masters who traded styles with each other? Mixing arts is nothing new - this was Bruce's point. Over the years style had become more important than the man and this was wrong.


              As for Bruce's fighting ability, well we only have anecdotes from various sources - albeit reliable ones such as Inosanto, Joe Lewis et al. Certainly there appears to be no shortage of fights on "teh str33ts", with opponnts of varying pedigrees.

              Interestingly Lewis hailed him as one of the greatest ever. Bob Wall was similarly complimentary. Both full contact guys...interesting eh?

              JKD - without wishing to sound like a parody - is combative in orientation, not competitive. If this meant a kick fine. A punch - fine. A knife - fine.

              Best tool for the job, no matter where it comes from.

              Revolutionary? Probably not. Unique? Probably not. Far more articulate and exposed - yup. You seem to hate his success rather than his message.

              Again, I wonder why?

              Comment


                #82
                I really liked that Dan Inosanto video. He says BL was the boxing champion of his highschool in Hong Kong, I didnt know that. He also says they came up with kickboxing because BL hated point sparring. That BL did a lot of research and read Don Draeger's book which discussed Muay Thai in the 60's when elbows and knees were used instead of the boxing hook and uppercut because its the same range, and that it has since evolved. Very interesting.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by odacon
                  So we're all in agreement, that it's 2007 and people STILL think that Bruce Lee was more than an actor with a toned physique who spouted a load of crap based on his very basic kung fu training and basically is responsible for everything wrong in martial arts?
                  Matt Thornton thinks Bruce is cool. That's good enough for me.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
                    First they had to blend - that is to say logically fit together. Secondly, they had to be tailored to the needs of the individual - in other words a technique from one art may only work for one person but can still be part of that persons JKD. This was revolutionary.
                    No. It still wasn't revolutionary.

                    People have been picking and choosing their preferred techniques for a long, long time. It's a necessary part of a sparring art. The tailoring comes naturally when you have to spar with them. Now, putting together techniques from different arts and "blending" them requires fighting under rulesets where techniques from the various arts are allowed. Judo and wrestling have each blended in techniques from the other, just as muay thai and savate blended in boxing punches. Again, Bruce Lee spoke about doing this, but other people were actually doing it.

                    Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
                    All the above mentioned are fine masters - but few heard of them at the time, at least in a global sense. What of Martin Burns who was advocating boxing and wrestling in the 1900's? What of teh various Tai-Chi masters who traded styles with each other? Mixing arts is nothing new - this was Bruce's point. Over the years style had become more important than the man and this was wrong.
                    Bruce Lee was indeed well-known, but it was for his films, not for his martial teachings. People flocked to kung fu schools to learn how to fight like him; they didn't go out to study boxing and judo. You can't claim that he was more influential without examining exactly what that influence was. He didn't spawn a rush towards MMA in his wake. He spoke of blending styles, but without a serious emphasis on training this in an alive manner, it was just the cross-training of old and a theory.

                    Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
                    As for Bruce's fighting ability, well we only have anecdotes from various sources - albeit reliable ones such as Inosanto, Joe Lewis et al. Certainly there appears to be no shortage of fights on "teh str33ts", with opponnts of varying pedigrees.

                    Interestingly Lewis hailed him as one of the greatest ever. Bob Wall was similarly complimentary. Both full contact guys...interesting eh?
                    He was a judo white belt in 1967, without any serious grappling experience. You're presenting him as an MMA fighter while referring to evidence that speaks purely of him as a striker, and that from people who have everything to gain by being associated with the legend of Bruce Lee.

                    Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
                    Revolutionary? Probably not. Unique? Probably not. Far more articulate and exposed - yup. You seem to hate his success rather than his message.
                    He didn't succeed! This is the point I'm trying to drive home to you.

                    For all his claimed articulacy and exposure, his contribution to modern MMA is almost non-existent. We have the Straight Blast Gym, but I think most of us suspect Matt Thornton has much more to do with its successes than Bruce Lee. We have the Dog Brothers, and that's a valuable legacy, but they're not particularly widespread. Against this we have the predominance of wing chun (how did his articulacy and exposure not prevent that?), a myriad of JKD schools that don't train with aliveness and, well, nunchucks.

                    Where were the Bruce Lee followers when Inoki staged his fights in the 70s? When Shooto rose in the 80s? Why weren't they entering the early UFCs with their cross-trained skills and kicking ass? Why didn't they bring ground and pound to the global stage, or sprawl and brawl?

                    Bruce Lee was an actor who had some fighting skill; we don't know how much, since he never competed at a serious level. He theorised about fighting. The people who followed his theories did not become mixed martial artists, just cross-trained ones. The people inspired only by his acting launched a plague of bullshido across the world. How on earth can you call any of this a "success"?

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Sophist
                      Kimura, cross-trained in boxing and Kyokushin karate, was fighting Valdemar Santana, cross-trained in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, boxing and capoeira under Vale Tudo rules in 1959, after Santana's victory by knock-out over Helio Gracie in 1958. Vale Tudo fighters weren't unaware of the virtues of cross-training before the UFCs; it's just that the Gracies were pushing the virtues of BJJ, an art unique to them, and cross-training wasn't the message they wanted to send.

                      Lee wasn't even looking at grappling, according to Gene Lebell, until 1966 and the set of the Green Hornet, the same year the already-accomplished Jon Bluming was proposing to Mas Oyama a form of fighting that incorporated both stand-up Kyokushin karate and judo with groundfighting. Lebell says he only worked out with Lee 10-12 times, showing him what he did, and that Lee gradually warmed to grappling's possibilities. In 1967 Lee seems to have begun grappling training with Hartsell.
                      http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ray.d8/article12.html
                      http://www.realfighting.com/0102/jonblumi.htm

                      We can go back much further in finding precedents in uniting striking and grappling arts, too. Bartitsu, founded by E.W. Barton-Wright in about 1898, sought to blend boxing, cane-fighting, savate and judo/jujitsu in such a way that the mastery of one art could be used against a person skilled in one of the others if needed.

                      He was far from the first to look at taking the best from several arts, and unlike most of those I've mentioned above, he didn't take his hybrid style into competitive fighting. Have you any evidence he ever competed under a Vale Tudo style ruleset?

                      Certainly, he understood the need for MMA well before most of the rest of the world, but he wasn't the first, nor has his school of thought been a primary influence on today's fighters. "The father of MMA" is merely a tag to drum up interest in MMA using Lee's fame - a fame acquired from his acting, not his fight career.
                      When you speak of the "first" to do this and that, you do realise that there's nothing new under the sun right? The Chinese and Japanese, and the Romans have been doing it thousands of moons ago.....

                      There seems to be a trend, for e.g. Jujitsu. Someone combines striking and grappling into a certain art, then later others break it up into its seperate components. Then someone else puts it back together again.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Sophist
                        No. It still wasn't revolutionary.

                        People have been picking and choosing their preferred techniques for a long, long time. It's a necessary part of a sparring art. The tailoring comes naturally when you have to spar with them. Now, putting together techniques from different arts and "blending" them requires fighting under rulesets where techniques from the various arts are allowed. Judo and wrestling have each blended in techniques from the other, just as muay thai and savate blended in boxing punches. Again, Bruce Lee spoke about doing this, but other people were actually doing it.



                        Bruce Lee was indeed well-known, but it was for his films, not for his martial teachings. People flocked to kung fu schools to learn how to fight like him; they didn't go out to study boxing and judo. You can't claim that he was more influential without examining exactly what that influence was. He didn't spawn a rush towards MMA in his wake. He spoke of blending styles, but without a serious emphasis on training this in an alive manner, it was just the cross-training of old and a theory.



                        He was a judo white belt in 1967, without any serious grappling experience. You're presenting him as an MMA fighter while referring to evidence that speaks purely of him as a striker, and that from people who have everything to gain by being associated with the legend of Bruce Lee.



                        He didn't succeed! This is the point I'm trying to drive home to you.

                        For all his claimed articulacy and exposure, his contribution to modern MMA is almost non-existent. We have the Straight Blast Gym, but I think most of us suspect Matt Thornton has much more to do with its successes than Bruce Lee. We have the Dog Brothers, and that's a valuable legacy, but they're not particularly widespread. Against this we have the predominance of wing chun (how did his articulacy and exposure not prevent that?), a myriad of JKD schools that don't train with aliveness and, well, nunchucks.

                        Where were the Bruce Lee followers when Inoki staged his fights in the 70s? When Shooto rose in the 80s? Why weren't they entering the early UFCs with their cross-trained skills and kicking ass? Why didn't they bring ground and pound to the global stage, or sprawl and brawl?

                        Bruce Lee was an actor who had some fighting skill; we don't know how much, since he never competed at a serious level. He theorised about fighting. The people who followed his theories did not become mixed martial artists, just cross-trained ones. The people inspired only by his acting launched a plague of bullshido across the world. How on earth can you call any of this a "success"?
                        When I was looking to get into MA I first studied BL's books and went looking for a JKD school/trainer in my area. I wasn't to happy with what I found. To me, MMA offered what BL was talking about, and I've been hooked since. I probably wouldn't of found or thought of MMA if I didn't read his material.

                        But that's just me.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by PPlate
                          When you speak of the "first" to do this and that, you do realise that there's nothing new under the sun right? The Chinese and Japanese, and the Romans have been doing it thousands of moons ago.....

                          There seems to be a trend, for e.g. Jujitsu. Someone combines striking and grappling into a certain art, then later others break it up into its seperate components. Then someone else puts it back together again.
                          That's a bit messy. The history of Chinese MA is pretty much impossible to disentangle from the legends; it's hard to say how old most of these arts genuinely are. Japanese jujitsu didn't waste a great deal of time on striking unarmed, since it focused mainly on the battlefield, where people wore armour, and groundfighting seems to have mostly been a hold-him-and-stab-him affair. Some of the later self-defence jujitsu arts made more of it, but by then we're approaching the judo time period anyway, and the striking was frankly crap.

                          There's a better argument for pugilism, boxing's forerunner, which used to include standing grappling with hip throws, but it didn't continue fighting after the fight reached the ground.

                          Pankration of course has a pretty good claim to being the first true MMA, but its practice died out long ago.

                          Comment


                            #88


                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Lights Out

                              A: Nooo..please...nooo...don't do this! It's not right!
                              B: You'll like my manly love! Now turn around! Your toes are tickling my wee wee!

                              Comment


                                #90
                                I think the Greeks beat Bruce by few thousand years. Boxing chanp, yeah.... was'nt he also a dance champ also. One tough MF.

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