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Bruce Lee rates YOU

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    #46
    Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
    He sparred - full contact - with his students, and was one of the first MA in the "modern" era to advocate this. Particularly with the use of modern equipment.
    Really?

    What about boxers? Muay Thai guys? Savateurs? Judoka? Wrestlers? BJJers?

    I mean, shit, dude. The "exotic" martial art in the West of the first half of the 20th century was judo, often with some jujitsu flavourings. The English-speaking world rated boxing and wrestling, and judo's incursion into that world came on the back of a great many challenge matches. After Bruce Lee, kung fu McDojos were everywhere. What's his legacy been? Wing Chun being taken way, way more seriously than ever it deserved. Tons of JKD schools trapped in dead patterns. There are a very few that really did hunt out the effective stuff, and they're widely respected, but they are the minority.

    Modern MMA descends from Brazilian and Japanese roots. Vale Tudo is a Brazilian tradition, and Japan with its own tradition of challenge matches started Shooto in 1985, six years before the UFC. Bruce Lee isn't a part of that history. He was about 11 when Kimura fought Helio Gracie, 13 when Mas Oyama opened his first dojo, 19 when Jon Bluming was cross-training Kyokushin karate and judo in Japan.

    Lee's legacy isn't universally awful, and he did have many of the right ideas, but his popularisation of the Chinese martial arts led to more of the bullshido contanimation we see today than almost any other single factor.

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      #47
      Esplain to me how he was supposed to get an MMA fight decades before MMA existed in the US?

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Sophist
        Really?
        Originally posted by Sophist

        What about boxers? Muay Thai guys? Savateurs? Judoka? Wrestlers? BJJers?

        I mean, shit, dude. The "exotic" martial art in the West of the first half of the 20th century was judo, often with some jujitsu flavourings. The English-speaking world rated boxing and wrestling, and judo's incursion into that world came on the back of a great many challenge matches. After Bruce Lee, kung fu McDojos were everywhere. What's his legacy been? Wing Chun being taken way, way more seriously than ever it deserved. Tons of JKD schools trapped in dead patterns. There are a very few that really did hunt out the effective stuff, and they're widely respected, but they are the minority.

        Modern MMA descends from Brazilian and Japanese roots. Vale Tudo is a Brazilian tradition, and Japan with its own tradition of challenge matches started Shooto in 1985, six years before the UFC. Bruce Lee isn't a part of that history. He was about 11 when Kimura fought Helio Gracie, 13 when Mas Oyama opened his first dojo, 19 when Jon Bluming was cross-training Kyokushin karate and judo in Japan.

        Lee's legacy isn't universally awful, and he did have many of the right ideas, but his popularisation of the Chinese martial arts led to more of the bullshido contanimation we see today than almost any other single factor.


        Jesus is reputed to have said "Love thy fellow man". This is the same man whose teachings have been used as a basis for war, genocide and racism

        Does the misuse of said teachings invalidate the original concept or meaning?

        (clue: no)

        Bruce was actually working on MMA training before he died (from Larry Hartsell), and this was independent of The Gracies or anyone else. MMA today is not the same as teh challenge matches of yesteryear. Even the Gracies have had to change - Royce taking Muay Thai for example - because they were still doing "style vs style".



        And how many wrestlers fought REGULARLY against boxers? Or boxers against judoka? None. So your comparison is invalid.

        The fact he died and people still try and preserve him like a museum artifact is not his fault and should not undermine his teachings. In other words, look at the man not the myth before you dismiss him.

        Comment


          #49
          Bruce was actually working on MMA training before he died (from Larry Hartsell),
          Larry Hartsell killed Bruce? That bastard!
          "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
          - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by OnceLost
            Larry Hartsell killed Bruce? That bastard!
            LMAO!!!

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Hannibal MAP
              He sparred - full contact - with his students, and was one of the first MA in the "modern" era to advocate this. Particularly with the use of modern equipment.

              Have you actually READ any of his works? Or Dan Inosanto's? Or are you just BL bashing to appear trendy?

              Like I said, I am a fan but I am aware of his faults. failure to "Put it on the line" was not one of them - he just did it without wanting a trophy at the end of it
              Excuse me, but boxing and Thai boxing existed well before Bruce Lee. How about Boxe Francais. I get really pissed when people say he was first MA to do full contact. Inosanto used to box before he met Bruce and I'm quite sure he would have kicked his ass. He was marketing genius with a huge ego and big drive to be famous. Dojo fighting is not like competition fighting. I never tried to best my teacher even though I know I could have.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by sempaiman
                Excuse me, but boxing and Thai boxing existed well before Bruce Lee. How about Boxe Francais. I get really pissed when people say he was first MA to do full contact. Inosanto used to box before he met Bruce and I'm quite sure he would have kicked his ass. He was marketing genius with a huge ego and big drive to be famous. Dojo fighting is not like competition fighting. I never tried to best my teacher even though I know I could have.
                I see - and how many of them practiced 2 on 1? Or 3 on 2?

                Better yet how many practiced different ranges?

                And if Dan himself says he couldn't kick Bruce's ass then your opinion is worth piss all - if that

                Comment


                  #53
                  Um, dude, no one is saying he's the first to do MA full contact.

                  DUH.

                  He was one of the first advocates of FC MA in the US, and one of the first to espouse TRUE MMA ideals in training, devoid of styles, of this or that.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    So we're all in agreement, that it's 2007 and people STILL think that Bruce Lee was more than an actor with a toned physique who spouted a load of crap based on his very basic kung fu training and basically is responsible for everything wrong in martial arts?

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by DerAuslander108
                      Um, dude, no one is saying he's the first to do MA full contact.

                      DUH.

                      He was one of the first advocates of FC MA in the US, and one of the first to espouse TRUE MMA ideals in training, devoid of styles, of this or that.
                      Precisely

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by odacon
                        So we're all in agreement, that it's 2007 and people STILL think that Bruce Lee was more than an actor with a toned physique who spouted a load of crap based on his very basic kung fu training and basically is responsible for everything wrong in martial arts?
                        My personal view on Bruce Lee:

                        Bruce was an actor since he was a very small child. He did movies (and I believe plays) with his father, who was an actor as well. As he grew up he began to learn some martial arts. I truly believe that he loved martial arts and wanted to be the best martial artist he could be. He was an open minded guy, looked into other styles instead of believing his style was "the truth". Although many people think he was "the best" I'd say thats far from true, but I would have to say he was by far the most influential martial artist ever. He used his knowledge and love of the martial arts in his acting. Making movie about his favorite hobby put him into the spotlight. I believe he was a good/great fighter, but I'm sure there were countless other guys that could mop the floor with him.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by odacon
                          So we're all in agreement, that it's 2007 and people STILL think that Bruce Lee was more than an actor with a toned physique who spouted a load of crap based on his very basic kung fu training and basically is responsible for everything wrong in martial arts?
                          No we are agreeing that most people hate BL because it is "teh trendy" and they have little to no exposure to his thought processes or investigative ability of their own to form an OBJECTIVE opinion rather than a vitriolic and hyperbole filled tirade

                          Comment


                            #58
                            By your logic then people defend lee to go against the status quo and be all rebellious like. Basically bruce lee fans are the original emos.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              lol...I love Bullshido logic.
                              "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
                              - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by odacon
                                By your logic then people defend lee to go against the status quo and be all rebellious like. Basically bruce lee fans are the original emos.
                                No, by my logic an opinion is only valid if it can be substantiated in some way - otherwise it is random vitriol spouted by gibbons.

                                Hope this helps clarify

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