Wing Chun’s linage – Greco Roman Wrestling.

[M1K3]

[TheSparrow]

The first time I did pummelling drills, the similarities to Wing Chun definitely helped me along.
The range at which pummelling drills are carried out is more important than where Chi Sao is carried out, IMO. Wing Chun might have developed more if they had done a chi-sao like exercise ("pummelling") at a closer range. Instead, it is all worked a bit too far out for my liking. I wonder why they didn't bother so much with closer range stuff.

[FormatC]

You are discovered teh r3al je3t k00n do?

All-one, exceptions? none!

[Goju - Joe]

I have said in several threads that WC would be a lot better if they used the techniques to close the gap and shoot in for under hooks and throws.

Which by the way is what Tai Chi practiced as an alive martial art looks like.

So who knows maybe someone took the basic elements of Tai Chi, and crapped it up to develop WC

[RoninPimp]

All Olympic Greco medalists are black sashes in WC. True story.

[Tom Kagan]

I wonder why they didn't bother so much with closer range stuff.

The reason is because __ng __un is a double short sword based system. Weapons change how close you want to get. An incredible peculiarity is that the learning progression is inverted from other weapon based systems.





As bad as some of the videos of the 'nun-who-must-not-be-named' style are, the nature of ChiSao is found in TsuiMa.

TsuiMa: Tsui = force; to push. Ma = horse.

TsuiMa, or forcing the horse, is a way to describe the process of unbalancing someone. It is essentially the wedging, turning, angling, push and pull jockeying it takes to maneuver yourself into a dominant position with an open line. Launching your attacks within this space have a higher probability of success and greater chance of follow up and finishing. (That's the theory, anyway. LOL)


TsuiMa is a fundamental of any Martial Art which has some semblance of effectiveness regardless of style; they just call it something else (e.g. Judo calls it Kuzushi). Obviously, each style also has different methodology and emphasis on the mechanics of unbalancing an opponent. Thus, each style has their signature stamp on the process.

Even if your __ng __un training was less than stellar, seeing parallels to TsuiMa in other styles is not an accident.

[PirateJon]

All Olympic Greco medalists are black sashes in WC. True story.

I like it better than "similar moves for similar results due to human physiology". Lord knows there's an unlimited number of ways to grab someones head so any random similarities are TEH CONSPIRACY!

[M1K3]

I have said in several threads that WC would be a lot better if they used the techniques to close the gap and shoot in for under hooks and throws.

Which by the way is what Tai Chi practiced as an alive martial art looks like.

So who knows maybe someone took the basic elements of Tai Chi, and crapped it up to develop WC

GoJu, do you have any vids or references to this? I am very interested and would like to see what it looks like.

Tanks.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I am pretty sure that George Silver created wing chun it is clearly listed in his manuscript on fighting "Paradoxes of Defence".

It is right after the section on Gun-Kata.

[Tonuzaba]

M1K3, while your idea (comparison with wrestling) is interesting, you and the other posters here somehow evade the fact that wing chun was developed as a striking system. As such, it uses extremely close range compared to most other striking arts.
So I think "wrestling gone bad" as you put it is a mistaken view. Though wing chun people are trying to unbalance the opponent, the try to do so first and foremost with punches and kicks while staying standing. The goal being not to bring somebody to the ground but to get him there so that he stays there (KO is the right word, I think).
Tonuzaba

[M1K3]

M1K3, while your idea (comparison with wrestling) is interesting, you and the other posters here somehow evade the fact that wing chun was developed as a striking system. As such, it uses extremely close range compared to most other striking arts.
So I think "wrestling gone bad" as you put it is a mistaken view. Though wing chun people are trying to unbalance the opponent, the try to do so first and foremost with punches and kicks while staying standing. The goal being not to bring somebody to the ground but to get him there so that he stays there (KO is the right word, I think).
Tonuzaba

Greetings Tonuzaba, I was waiting for your reply to this. Wrestling gone bad is humor gone bad, ha ha.

Part of the point I was trying to make is that not all wrestling styles have the goal of getting to the ground, your opponent yes, yourself no. The pummelling skills were very similar to wing chun chi sao in some ways, so at one time in the past wing chuns predecessor may have included standing grappling and throwing skills which are no longer used but have left their traces in the art.

[Goju - Joe]

GoJu, do you have any vids or references to this? I am very interested and would like to see what it looks like.

Tanks.

there was a video posted in a thread a few months ago

A few minutes of half assed searching on here, youtube and google leads to nothing.

So maybe I imagined it

[M1K3]

BTW, I prefer striking or kicking when my opponent is on the ground and I am not. In a real fight when the opponent is down, I prefer running.

[Tonuzaba]

Greetings Tonuzaba, I was waiting for your reply to this. Wrestling gone bad is humor gone bad, ha ha.
Part of the point I was trying to make is that not all wrestling styles have the goal of getting to the ground, your opponent yes, yourself no. The pummelling skills were very similar to wing chun chi sao in some ways, so at one time in the past wing chuns predecessor may have included standing grappling and throwing skills which are no longer used but have left their traces in the art.

Yep, traces clearly visible. If you take one of the first movements of the Muk Yan Chong set, the usage of the neck-pulling hand, that is an example of a WT technique, that if executed properly can under given circumstances get the other person to the ground. It's application can be for example against a haymaker/wide hook/stick attack, combined with stepping in/turning and of course defense against the attacking arm (fak sau...).
There are knee techniques designed to force the opponent to fall, etc...
So yes, in a way you're right, although the main focus is always on attacking the head as soon as the limbs were taken care of/avoided to the extent that they don't pose a serious threat.
Tonuzaba

[M1K3]

there was a video posted in a thread a few months ago

A few minutes of half assed searching on here, youtube and google leads to nothing.

So maybe I imagined it

Thanks for checking, I looked around but the stuff I found did not look anything like wrestling. Maybe someday one of us will find it.