R.E.S.P.E.C.T?

[PirateJon]

I do want to find out what it means, to you, the viewers at home.

Seen a few threads where people got shit for admitting to preferring to train or continue to train in... shall we say... "styles and training methods that are sub-optimal for unarmed combat". Not bullshidoka, but people that honestly admit their weaknesses and limitations, but prefer WC or Hapkido to boxing, BJJ, MT or judo.

How do you feel about these people and their choices?

[Epicurus]

Well, I can't really find fault with a person fully understanding the risks and benefits of an art and choosing it, but I suspect that people who stick with an art they claim is "sub-optmal" may simply be going along and secretly hold a belief either that their art is in fact the best or among the best, or they believe that it is "the artist and not the art" to such a degree that they believe that ALL martial arts are in fact equal.

Personally I think that aspiring to absolutely optimal martial arts is silly. Even those of us who train Muay Thai and MMA, the two best arts anywhere, ever, do not attend the best, hardest, toughest school on the planet to the absolute allowable limit.

Maybe some people really do enjoy WC or Hapkido for its own sake or for cultural reasons - that's cool. I like boxing and wrestling and Savate for cultural reasons.

I find it hard to understand the decision to study a martial art that they genuinely believe to be largely impractical for any self-defense or MMA match scenario, and hard to empathize with, but I really can't fault it on any objective grounds if the person is cognizant of what they are doing.

[Axelton]

I seriously believe that people who sign up to do a martial art need to realize the main point of what they should be doing is the martial aspect. If you dont want to get hit to be able to know that your training is working then you have no business trying in the first place.

[Torakaka]

The only real problem I have is with the assholes that tell me what IM doing isn't what the martial arts are intended for because I'm not focusing on personal growth and all that crap. They can be idiots all they want, so long as they're not bugging me with their bullshit.

[Stolenbjorn]

There are several reasons for training a MA. I agree that you cannot know how good you are at fighing unless fighting, an european WMA-instructor once told me "YOU'RE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST FIGHT". Personally my first experience with a free-sparring with "aliveness" was both a shock and a good lesson. I was sparring longsword (wooden wasters) vs. another dude that I didn't know wery well. He was doing Escreema and shoot-fighting, and before I even got to think of using my longsword, we were rolling round on the ground wresteling, using the swords as leavers....

One problem I find hard to discuss on bullshido without beeing flamed is to find the balance between drilling full speed and full contact with adapted techniques to limit the risk for severe injury (what I personally call a Martial sport), vs. drilling the "lethal" techniques, but loosing the "aliveness"-factor.

What Mr. Epicurus writes about people that believe that they fight the ultimate secret kick-ass-martial art is true; if you don't fight, you won't be good at fighing. But on the other hand; you become good at what you drill, and isn't there a risk of not actually doing the lethal version of what one practice in the ring if you're pumped up on adrenalin and work on body-reflecses? I've heard a story (might be false, might be true; I have no source to verify/ dismiss it) about this cop that drilled disarming guns, and he was very good. Then once he and his partner was in a shop, a robber entered and pointed the gun at him. He reacted on reflecs and disarmed the robber, but because he had drilled returning the firearm to his sparring-partner, he returned the gun to the pusseled robber. (The story ends with his partner putting a shot in the robber). My point is; if you train with plenty of aliveness, full speed, and close to full-contact, but not with certain "lethal" techniques, isn't there a risk that you actually wouldn't do the lethal stuff in an actual situation -that you would fight the fight as a contest, because your body is drilled to fight after a certain set of rules?

(With "lethal" techniques I don't mean magical Hong-Kong /Hollywood- art, but pretty straight foreward stuff such as dislocating shoulders, breaking necks, stabbing eyeballs with the fingers, breaking arms, etc. -stuff that were practiced in the "old days", but that is difficult to train full speed and full contact.)

[Axelton]

The only real problem I have is with the assholes that tell me what IM doing isn't what the martial arts are intended for because I'm not focusing on personal growth and all that crap. They can be idiots all they want, so long as they're not bugging me with their bullshit.

lol kidS...those people you talk about are everywhere. they are the types who only do martial arts (shaolin anyone?) so they can have some old asian guy yell "YOU WRACK DISCIPRIN!" at them all day so they get "culture" and "mental "growth" from MA. Bunch of twits.

[Matt W.]

before I even got to think of using my longsword, we were rolling round on the ground wresteling, using the swords as leavers

So, you were practicing the German method then? *g* (A little inside humor for all the ARMA people out there.)

[Motor]

I have a friend who's been taking Aikido for 5 years or so and is about to get his first Dan. He says when he started he didn't know anything about MAs and if he was to do it over again he wouldn't take Aikido. He admits its really not that great for self defense (good for him). I asked why he's still doing it and he says he enjoys it and since he's got so far in it he might as well continue.

His first reason for continuing I see no fault in, but his second reason is lame and lazy.

Another friend has been studding krotty for 5-6 years and is wanting to be an instructor. They do no sparring of any type, because, of course, its to dangerous. His reasons for taking it are discipline, focus, and self defense. He has a learning disability and enjoys the challenge of memorizing a bunch of techniques and complex katas. Using his mind and body together like that has helped him tremendously. Plus, he's becoming a bad ass Krotty Master.

I see no fault with his non-martial reasons, but I'm concerned his mental development will get screwed up if he finds out his MA can't defend him properly.

I'm taking Krav Maga. I like it, but I'm quickly realizing its weaknesses. Such as, not being able to test what kicking someone in the groin would really do to them. Oh, well. At least there are hot girls there.

[RaiNnyX4]

I have a friend who's been taking Aikido for 5 years or so and is about to get his first Dan. He says when he started he didn't know anything about MAs and if he was to do it over again he wouldn't take Aikido. He admits its really not that great for self defense (good for him). I asked why he's still doing it and he says he enjoys it and since he's got so far in it he might as well continue.

His first reason for continuing I see no fault in, but his second reason is lame and lazy.

Another friend has been studding krotty for 5-6 years and is wanting to be an instructor. They do no sparring of any type, because, of course, its to dangerous. His reasons for taking it are discipline, focus, and self defense. He has a learning disability and enjoys the challenge of memorizing a bunch of techniques and complex katas. Using his mind and body together like that has helped him tremendously. Plus, he's becoming a bad ass Krotty Master.

I see no fault with his non-martial reasons, but I'm concerned his mental development will get screwed up if he finds out his MA can't defend him properly.

I'm taking Krav Maga. I like it, but I'm quickly realizing its weaknesses. Such as, not being able to test what kicking someone in the groin would really do to them. Oh, well. At least there are hot girls there.

Tell your friend that's doing Aikido to either find a better Aikido dojo or crosstrain in an alive martial art. I recommend as always, JUDO!!!

[Stolenbjorn]

So, you were practicing the German method then? *g* (A little inside humor for all the ARMA people out there.)

Actually, it's the Italian method, and it actually have loads of grappeling-techniques that would remedy most of what a shoot-fighter can do. My only problem back then was that I had never experienced the explosiveness of a sparring-match with "aliveness", and it was really an eye-opener to me. From that day on, I've spent more time on the grappeling aspect of Fiore dei Liberi than the longsword long-play (giokko lago):icon_wink

[Axelton]

"Another friend has been studding krotty for 5-6 years and is wanting to be an instructor. They do no sparring of any type, because, of course, its to dangerous. His reasons for taking it are discipline, focus, and self defense. "

Yet again an old asian master yelling " YOU WRACK DISCIPRIN !"

[TKD Black Belt]

TKD

[Neildo]

I went with the popular option.

[RuledByEnmity]

I agree. I think art is a perfect way to describe a lot of them because they obviously aren't anything else. Flashy, hard to learn and to perfect. That's about it.

[ViciousFlamingo]

If it's not focused on application in fighting, it's not a martial art. You don't have to try to be the badass of all badasses to want to learn effective fighting skills.

I give plenty of respect to people who recognize that their art needs work or fixing and are trying to fix it a la Wing Chun Fight Club, it's just not for me. (Why try fixing what's broke when there're other things that work just fine?) But I still give them respect.

People who do something like the slow kind of tai chi or capoeira or wushu solely for relaxation and fitness, that's cool too, just why bother calling it a martial art?

I mostly don't understand people who do a martial art for some kind of pseudo-historical or cultural experience. Hell, if I wanted to have a cranky old Asian guy yell at me about RACKING DISCIPRIN for a few hours, I'd go call my dad. I'm sure there are people who could explain the whole cultural thing, but I'd like to hear it.