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Calling all Chunners/Ex-Chunners: What is actually useful?

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    Calling all Chunners/Ex-Chunners: What is actually useful?

    What have you learned in _ing _un that has been actually useful in sparring / competition? What has not been helpful, or even harmful?

    For clarification: This thread is primarily intended for ex-chunners who cross-train or have cross-trained in other striking arts, and no, I don't mean you've watched that freaking Jet Li vs. "Boxer" clip on Youtube, but chunners who cross-train can join in if they feel like they have something to add other than "_ing _un is t3h d34dly, you just don't have t3h r34l _ing _un!!". And please state how long you did _ing _un for, and what striking art(s) you've cross-trained in, and for how long.

    I took WC for two years, stopped after I got the creeping feeling that I wasn't learning how to fight well. After a while I started up with kickboxing, continued for about three years (on and off for five, so three cumulative), and haven't looked back since.

    Personally, I've found the pak sao to be useful, since it's pretty much a boxing parry.

    I use the front kick a lot, although I've had to get used to getting more pushing force behind it. Still, since I learned in WC to use the front kick as a kind of stop hit against other kicks, I feel like that particular aspect of kicking was well-trained enough that I didn't have to spend any time changing my technique for kickboxing.

    Aside from that, no other techniques come to mind as being particularly useful.

    My hand-eye coordination wasn't nearly as good as I thought it would be, because I was so used to reacting in a bad manner. For example, I'd automatically try to block every damn punch that got thrown my way, and so my guard got screwed up really easily. Also, I still have a tendency to move my blocking hand's elbow away from my body when defending a hook, which is annoying.

    I've had absolutely no luck whatsoever in using trapping while sparring, even with MMA gloves, and I think those are small enough to not be a huge factor in trapping success. Maybe it's because I just clinch or do takedowns when I get close enough to trap, but I don't believe trapping is actually workable in a fight. I'd love to believe it is (it's pretty much a chunner's wet dream to be able to move fast enough to block and redirect every punch), but my own experience has shown me that the speed, force and angles at which good punches are thrown make this practically impossible.

    All in all, I haven't really felt that the WC made me a worse fighter (as soon as I decided that chain punches were useless, it was pretty easy to stop using any chunnish techniques and start learning useful ones), but rather that I simply did not gain anything from my time spent learning it, and that I wasted my time when I could have been training in something worthwhile.

    Anyways, that's my $0.02. Anybody else? (RunningDog, I'm looking at you.)

    *edited for clarity*
    Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 10/24/2006 11:43pm, .

    #2
    Did wing chun for four years. The supposedly authentic kind handed down from Chu Shong Tin, currently the longest serving student of Ip Man still alive.

    It really offers no lasting benefits., IMHO.
    It taught me how to spot fraud and cultist behaviour.
    Some theories on body movement and power generation are interesting but almost impossible to put into practice, and even more impossible to apply to actual fighting.
    At the end of the day, the negative far outweighs the positive. And it creates a lot of very nasty, egotistical, delusional people.

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      #3
      I've actually used the trapping to get into the clinch, but that's all that I've found useful. Oh, and doing a long trapping combination on a non-resistive partner can impress clueless people.

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        #4
        I learned how to type

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          #5
          Don't know yet, as I haven't started another striking art yet (I'm posting cos VF just asked me this question in some WTiscrap thread)
          But I think it's good for the soul to admit to yourself you might have been wasting your time somewhat, and move on. So I'm happy to join this here club.

          I like my fak sao though, it's more like a forearm smash... And I do seem to be able to respond fluidly and fast to all sorts of attacks. I dunno, we'll see.
          It's not particularly useful for Judo and BJJ , except for the basic awareness of what different bits of my body are doing.

          Edit: bets on this thread becoming another 600 post chunner shitstorm?
          Last edited by RunningDog; 10/24/2006 11:36pm, .

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            #6
            i learned kung fu stances i can use to look foolish. non standard sstances where used to streach.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
              I learned how to type
              You're not an ex-chunner, you won't like this thread, so do yourself a favour and don't post.

              Unless you become an ex-chunner, which will never happen as you are dementedly and incurably obsessed with chunning.

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                #8
                RunningDog, I don't know what your WT was like, but I'd highly recommend sparring hard against a boxer, kickboxer, or MTer if the opportunity arises. It's always a good idea to get a solid idea of how competent you are against a real opponent. For me, my first real sparring session was an eye-opener...or, well, eye-closer too. :P

                I've really come to love grappling, though. It's like the concepts of WC (every attack has a defense and/or counter-attack, sensitivity, flow), except it actually works!
                Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 10/24/2006 11:42pm, .

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by ViciousFlamingo
                  RunningDog, I don't know what your WT was like, but I'd highly recommend sparring hard against a boxer, kickboxer, or MTer if the opportunity arises. It's always a good idea to get a solid idea of how competent you are against a real opponent. For me, my first real sparring session was an eye-opener...or, well, eye-closer too. :P

                  I've really come to love BJJ and groundwork, though. It's like the concepts of WC (every attack has a defense and/or counter-attack, sensitivity, flow), except it actually works!
                  Yeah, groundwork rules. I'll probably do another striking art as a sideline, maybe once a week if that (and not MT - my shins are fine as they are), but I'm going off the idea of hitting people at all.

                  In general, what I really like is rolling full contact. I get the benefits I always thought I'd get from the WT but never really did. I feel much more peaceful and relaxed after a good hard class, it's like actually fighting gets rid of that niggling primal urge to fight that we all have. I confess, I used to run through violent scenarios in my mind, Phil Elmore style, but I seem to have been cured of that now, which is really fucking good for me.

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                    #10
                    Vicious flamingo hit the nail on the head... I found BJJ to achieve all of wing chun's aims much better than it could itself. Simplicity, no use of brute strength, economy of movement, etc. etc... all executed much better by BJJ than WC.
                    In fact I started writing about it in an article which I didn't have the grit to finish. You can check it out on my blog if you like. http://mmabjj.wordpress.com/2006/10/...g-chun-vs-bjj/

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by supercrap
                      Vicious flamingo hit the nail on the head... I found BJJ to achieve all of wing chun's aims much better than it could itself. Simplicity, no use of brute strength, economy of movement, etc. etc... all executed much better by BJJ than WC.
                      In fact I started writing about it in an article which I didn't have the grit to finish. You can check it out on my blog if you like. http://mmabjj.wordpress.com/2006/10/...g-chun-vs-bjj/

                      Dude that's a good article. You should finish it and post it here, it wouldn't take long.
                      What's sad is that W/VT/C had a lot of potential once apon a time, but it's been squandered.

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                        #12
                        I started reading that article supercrap, but I must go to bed. I hope you finish it. You could be really classy and put it in a professional-style PDF format :D

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                          #13
                          Neat article supercrap, that pretty much catches all my feelings about BJJ vs. WC.

                          One thing that really relieved me about discovering aliveness through BJJ was that techniques in the art don't get worse, they steadily get better. When I was told in WC that it was 2000 years old and other people were slowly watering the art down into crap, I was so sad that it was dying out. And then when I came to BJJ and realized that it's so obvious when a technique is crap or not, and only the good techniques are kept...well, it was a lightbulb moment. I wrote in my BJJ journal about the selective pressure and evolution theory applied through rolling, and I finally got a name to put to it when I read all the articles by Matt Thornton on aliveness.

                          Heck, this thread should probably be called "Ex-Chunners Anonymous" or something. "Hi, my name's ViciousFlamingo, and I chain-punched for two years...."

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by ViciousFlamingo
                            Heck, this thread should probably be called "Ex-Chunners Anonymous" or something. "Hi, my name's ViciousFlamingo, and I chain-punched for two years...."
                            I'd like to thank you, Vicious F, for starting the thread. I feel comfortable saying things here that I can't even tell my wife.


                            Wait... I'm not married
                            Last edited by RunningDog; 10/26/2006 3:43pm, .

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                              #15
                              Yeah, y'know, it does feel good to kinda laugh at it all.

                              When I first read (I think on here, actually) that WC was crap, I went through all five stages of grief. I denied (nobody knows t3h r34l _ing _un), I got angry (I'd kick their asses with my chain-punches if I saw them in person), *got my ass handed to me by a kickboxer*, I bargained (maybe I can adapt my WC to a better MA?), I got depressed (I can't believe I wasted two years of my life...), and then I accepted and started training for real.

                              In conclusion, BJJ wins again.


                              Oh, and here's a benefit from _ing _un that I hadn't thought of before: lots of Bullshidokas who think they have the anti-grapple and the deadly, all easily identifiable by their centerline stance.
                              Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 10/25/2006 12:34am, .

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