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    Womens Self Defense (ultimate bullshido?)

    Hello,

    I'm hoping I don't get flamed to hell for this thread...... but....

    Is a woman really capable of defending herself against a man? A much, much, bigger man....

    Or.... Is a smaller guy really able to defend himself against a much, much bigger opponent? It doesn't have to be all about women.

    I guess footwork can come into play.....weapons... etc.

    Keep in mind that I am a woman.


    I'm about 5'5 130lbs am I really going to be able to defend myself against 6'+ 230lbs raging lunatic mugger, or killer, or rapist? UNARMED.
    I mean you always have these guys that are like "Oh just do this jointlock, it doesn't take much strength" or "Oh it's easier to take a bigger person down if you're smaller" or "Remember pressure points" or "Use your body weight" etc. Keep in mind that these guys are freakin' giants and about 20x stronger than I am so of course all that stuff is easy for them.

    I know alot about self-defense has to do with being confident in yourself and everything....but I think being realistic is also a big part of it.
    I know that just because you are big and strong doesn't mean that you are immune to pain....

    I' not tring to say that women and small guys are helpless.....but.... there are really no good real life examples out there as far as I'm concerned to show that a smaller person is capable of taking on a bigger person. I want to see something that is not rehersed or expected. A real life situation that just happened to be caught on film by some random tourist or something.


    Maybe I'm just ignorant on this matter.
    Please remember that I'm not trying to offend anyone....
    I'm just trying to learn.

    I know that there are/were plenty of smaller martial artists that could/can handle themselves well....

    Maybe I just have these views beause the only style I've really studied was a tradtional okinawan type...

    I'm just recently starting to get into mma and other self-defense systems.

    I'd really appriciate some feedback on this topic.

    #2
    Watch out for upcoming BJJ nutriding:

    Is 170 lbs small enough to prove it? Cuz there are the first couple of UFCs. There are also the MMA fights against sumo wrestlers. Royce beat one in K-1, and some little guy beat one in the first or second Pride.

    Comment


      #3
      There are three answers to your question. If strong machine was here and he teaches grappling and mixed martial arts, he would say that if you were studying in a full contact gym, six hours a week, say 300 hours in a year. You could learn the skills to defend yourself. If Don Gwinn were on this thread he could point out that by achieving basic competence using a pistol you could protect yourself against an attacker of any size. Training time, perhaps a week long 40 hour class. In between there are some programs designed to increase your chances of survival that are not totally B.S. but there is a limit what anyone can teach you over a weekend or in 20 hours. If you decide to go the model mugging/Impact route I would suggest consulting this trainer. In my opinion she is the best of the group. http://www.dr-ruthless.com/sb_training.html And yes I trained with her in the early 1990s.

      Comment


        #4
        Disclaimer: I'm roughly the size of a pro wrestler, and I have no concept of what it would be like to be a 120 pound woman.

        That said: All things being equal, conditioning, skill, etc, size becomes a huge advantage.

        It takes a LOT of skill to overcome the 70+ pound weight difference you'd be giving up to fight say, a 200 pound guy. Now, I roll with a judo brown belt half my size who can tap me at will, so it's not impossible - but he's a brown belt in judo, a black belt in a standup art, and a police officier.

        If practical self defense, fast, is your goal then the best course is to focus on cardio vascular fitness - you will learn to outrun the average attacker long before you learn to beat him up.

        There's nothing wrong with learning martial arts with self defense as a goal, just be aware that the martial arts have to be realistic and quality, and it takes longer then people think. People have used fight training to overcome bigger, more numerous opponents - that was the original purpose of fight training. It's not impossible - it just takes more training, and harder training, then people expect.

        Finally - what are your expectations? Say your current chances against a large malcontent are 5%. Your training might never make you the favorite, but what does it have to raise that percentage too for you to consider it worth doing? I assume in a life or death situation you intend to struggle regardless of your own competency right? If the training gives you a 25% chance, or a 35% chance, is it productive? What if your attacker only weighs 150 pounds? 175?

        If nothing else, lessons in a quality, hard contact martial arts system will teach you who you can and can't afford to tangle with. Just stress that quality part especially if self defense is your goal. And don't throw out grappling - knowing how to wrestle when the other person doesn't is a HUGE advantage in a "real fight."

        Also,
        Last edited by JohnnyCache; 10/22/2006 2:25pm, .

        Comment


          #5
          I think it's certainly possible to overcome a large weight or strength disadvantage, but anyone who assures you that a given technique is "surefire" etc. is either ignorant or trying to boost your confidence.

          I'm a guy who weighs only about 180 lbs or so, tall and thin, and when I pass a bouncer or a similar big football-player type fellow I usually assume that if they know anything about fighting I would have only a very slim chance to beat them if they attacked me. However, it is easy to get psyched out by larger opponents, and I think that avoiding a defeatist attitude is central to coming out ahead in such a fight.

          Cases of people overcoming weight differences abound - as stated above, watch footage of UFC 1, 2 and 4 for some good examples. Also Jerome LeBanner vs. Bob Sapp was a draw, despite a rather hefty weight difference, likewise Cro Cop vs. Sapp, although I don't really think anyone here is on a level approaching LeBanner or Filipovic ;)

          In short; it's quite possible to beat a larger and stronger opponent but realistically you need a considerable advantage of some sort to give yourself a good chance, such as superior technical skills or a weapon. A positive fighting attitude is important, because apparent disadvantages can easily be magnified if you obssess over them and give in to unwarranted levels of fear (watch a kickboxing match where one participant lets themselves be cowed and pushed around by a more aggressive fighter and see how well that tactic works for them).

          Comment


            #6
            Answer "it depends"

            I know that sounds like a "loaded" answer but let me give an example. In another life time I played high school football, coach was explaining basically to the offensive linemen how to figure out blocking assignments. One smarta$$ player kept playing the "what if" game, what happens if he lines up here or if two line up on you, or ect ect ect. Coach finally blew up and said in response "what if there is a hurrican, your basically screwed, deal with and keep playing ball". Can a women defend herself, hell yes. Mind set, traning, strength, conditions ect ect ect all come into play. Like I said it depends. A person wants to stack the deck in ones own favor when it comes to "personal defense".
            If you go into a boxing ring w/ two people one is 6'-5" 250# and the other is 5'-5" 140 # make a call on who's going to win. Well ok now start adding more factors maybe the 6'-5" guy never has boxed a day in his life and the other one's a golden glove. It changes the way you look at it. You can create no- win scenarios in your mind. Your standing in the middle of the road and get hit by a mack truck. What do you do....die. Now it sounds like what your asking for (please clarify) is an example of some type of "attack" by a much larger person on a smaller. How you word it, it sounds like your looking for a video of "self defense" on "the street" as opposed to let say a UFC (early years) of no weight classes bouts (which you do see smaller opponets beating larger ones).
            Last edited by JT-T; 10/22/2006 2:40pm, .

            Comment


              #7
              The answer you see lies in JUDO!!!! :D Just mildly kidding. I still think Judo is one of the best SD arts to learn for man and woman followed by BJJ.

              Is a woman really capable of defending herself against a man? A much, much, bigger man....

              Or.... Is a smaller guy really able to defend himself against a much, much bigger opponent? It doesn't have to be all about women.
              The answer to both questions is YES but its not easy. Taking on a larger opponent requires a great amount of skill. Neither a man nor a woman will get that form a SD seminar or one or two classes here and there.

              I guess footwork can come into play.....weapons... etc.
              Yep footwork is always important and weapons should always be an option in SD situations. But the trick there is to know when to use it not all situations require whipping out a hand cannon Dirty Harry style.

              Keep in mind that I am a woman.
              Thats ok I'm in touch with my inner Lesbian.:qbluewack


              I'm about 5'5 130lbs am I really going to be able to defend myself against 6'+ 230lbs raging lunatic mugger, or killer, or rapist? UNARMED.
              I mean you always have these guys that are like "Oh just do this jointlock, it doesn't take much strength" or "Oh it's easier to take a bigger person down if you're smaller" or "Remember pressure points" or "Use your body weight" etc. Keep in mind that these guys are freakin' giants and about 20x stronger than I am so of course all that stuff is easy for them.
              Thats the thing. Its EASY if you been training in an ALIVE manner for a period time. To me a flying armbar is EASY to a newb or someone who doesn't train as much they don't see it that way. Now is it possilbe for a 5'3" 130lb woman to take on a 6' 230lbs beast? Yes it is. Will it be easy? HELL NO!

              I had a Danzan Ryu JJ ( a Judo based modern JJ art) teacher who I called WILLOW because of her small stature. I have seen her toss and choke men twice her size, me included and I was trying my damnest not to get choked due to male pride. She could do this becuase she had been training in the art since she was a little girl. The difference in skill level between her and those she tossed was great but I saw her suffer the same fate at the hands of her older and more experienced brothers. So keep in mind that SKILL and EXPERIENCE can compesate for size and strenght but when they are equal (or near equal) bigger and stronger tends to win. Thats when an equalizer comes into play.

              I' not tring to say that women and small guys are helpless.....but.... there are really no good real life examples out there as far as I'm concerned to show that a smaller person is capable of taking on a bigger person. I want to see something that is not rehersed or expected. A real life situation that just happened to be caught on film by some random tourist or something.
              My BJJ trainer and is only 150lbs. I have 70lbs and about 5 inches on him. He gives me a hell of a hard time when we sparr and roll. I have seen him deal with bigger guys than me who come in and want to see what BJJ is about. When we go at it Vale Tudo style he does quite well. Now keep in mind I am no slouch whatsoever in the fight department and lasting against me for a signinficant amount of time is a testament in itself. Another member of my gym, Zeek, is about the same size and he's has gotten into fights with bigger guys and won. I also seem my baby sister bitch slapp guys but thats doesn't count because she is almost my size.
              ______
              Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

              RIP SOLDIER

              Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
              -Gene, GODHAND

              You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
              The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
              -Daniel Tosh

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by MacWombat
                Watch out for upcoming BJJ nutriding:

                Is 170 lbs small enough to prove it? Cuz there are the first couple of UFCs. There are also the MMA fights against sumo wrestlers. Royce beat one in K-1, and some little guy beat one in the first or second Pride.
                Good example don't get me wrong i'm not trying to be smart but can a small woman lift a large male without too much trouble?.
                A heel stomp through anyone's knee should stop them or the thumbs in the eyes, if you're talking about saving your life unfortunately there's no guarantees.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LORD ASIA
                  The answer you see lies in JUDO!!!! :D Just mildly kidding. I still think Judo is one of the best SD arts to learn for man and woman followed by BJJ.
                  FUCK YEAH!!! Judo's great for self defesne for women out of the fact that like JJ it's a "soft art" you don't have to have an arm that can punch through an tank or a kick faster than lightning, and while some conditioning for MUCH MUCH MUCH larger opponents usually is a plus, you'll be working and building the necessary muscles for that in a good class anyways. It's good for defense standing AND if you happen to find yerself pinned by said mugger/rapist. w00t w00t judo!



                  [/QUOTE]The answer to both questions is YES but its not easy. Taking on a larger opponent requires a great amount of skill. Neither a man nor a woman will get that form a SD seminar or one or two classes here and there. [/QUOTE]
                  Exactly, you'll have to train, quite a bit to feel proficient in ANY art to defend yourself. Don't get suckered in by those R.A.D. rape defense seminars, they're as useful to you as a microwave to a hamster.


                  [/QUOTE]I had a Danzan Ryu JJ ( a Judo based modern JJ art) teacher who I called WILLOW because of her small stature. I have seen her toss and choke men twice her size, me included and I was trying my damnest not to get choked due to male pride. She could do this becuase she had been training in the art since she was a little girl. The difference in skill level between her and those she tossed was great but I saw her suffer the same fate at the hands of her older and more experienced brothers. So keep in mind that SKILL and EXPERIENCE can compesate for size and strenght but when they are equal (or near equal) bigger and stronger tends to win. Thats when an equalizer comes into play.[/QUOTE]
                  Exactly, there's a 17 yr old 110lb girl in my judo class and I'm 19 and 208lb's, not ONLY was I taken down initially but I found myself tapping within a minute of hitting the ground. I was totally helpless (and still am to this day) to defend myself against her....

                  Doooooo juuuuuudooooooo..... O.O O.O

                  Don't expect not to gain skillz tho' without time and effort, work hard and it'll pay off in the end.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Asia,

                    Where did you work out in DZR???

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sierra Vista, AZ under Meleanna Tomooka (Joseph Holk's daughter) back in the late 80's early 90's.
                      ______
                      Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

                      RIP SOLDIER

                      Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
                      -Gene, GODHAND

                      You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
                      The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
                      -Daniel Tosh

                      Comment


                        #12
                        IMO! Whats bullshido about women's self-defence is that there is no emphasis dedicated to long term serious training. It seems to me that people in general, specifically seem to think that one class might be enough.

                        I'm not sure if it's because self-defence classes are too expensive so women decide on the cheapest course available or that women aren't explained to the necessity to hone one skill of fighting.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Good example don't get me wrong i'm not trying to be smart but can a small woman lift a large male without too much trouble?.
                          ...yes? given good form, lifting another human being is one of the less size dependant things you can do.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by markcos262
                            Good example don't get me wrong i'm not trying to be smart but can a small woman lift a large male without too much trouble?.
                            A heel stomp through anyone's knee should stop them or the thumbs in the eyes, if you're talking about saving your life unfortunately there's no guarantees.
                            I don't see what lifting a person has to do with Royce Gracie in UFC 1-4. He didn't lift anyone, he took them down through putting all his weight on them in awkward positions. That is very possible for a small woman to do.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thumb in the eyes... lol...
                              Imagine how pissed off that 230lb guy is going to be, now that his target's just poked him in the eye. Very, I would imagine.

                              Comment

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