Wing Tsun is an absolute Joke

[gecco69]

Thanks for all the good advise.

Over the weekend I went to the Wing Chun Club that we have in our town just to see what it's like.



It was all very similar to WT, they just did some slightly different forms. But they where all slaging off Wing Tsun big time. Then again our WT Sifu is slaging of Wing Chun...

The Sifu's there seemed much more down to earth & didn't make ridiculous claims.

Back to WT.

Any non WT guy heard of Blitz Defence ?



Also the claims of our Sifu that WT is the best martial art to defend vs all other martial arts. We did exercises where someone is a boxer, grappler, karate dude etc. & the other one defends using WT.

Now this all looked well if the attackers just stood there and did the single boxing/striking attack as instructed. I pointed out that in a real situation the attacker would react the defence moves of the WT guy.

My Sifu said no as the WT guy will be too quick. I demanded a demonstration on me, and again I proved him wrong.

[Southpaw]

The entire POINT of wing chun punches is for them to be weak, but make up for quality with quantity.

Where did you hear that shit?

I've never heard anything like that. Most of our power training is focused on improving punching power.

[Shawarma]

.....which is still pathetic compared to boxer/karate style punches, but you're able to throw a lot more of them in a second.

[Southpaw]

It could be that your experience w/ wing chun is very different from mine...but we train so that each of our punches do damage.

I think you are probably right in general...and I have admitted many times that the wing chun I train is not normal with chun.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Shawarma

The entire POINT of wing chun punches is for them to be weak, but make up for quality with quantity. .....which is still pathetic compared to boxer/karate style punches, but you're able to throw a lot more of them in a second.

Isn't that the whole point with Wing Chun? Throw more but relatively weaker punches but aim them at the soft spots against the centerline. Since they are aimed at soft spots and are thrown in a barrage (hence should hit some of these soft spots), they don't need to be as powerful as say a karateka punch or boxer cross.

This would theoretically work for a lighter woman against an untrained fighter (not used to full contact blows) because it doesn't take a lot of force to break a nose, or hit the Adam's apple, or jab the eye. A sudden barrage which hits some of these spots would hurt, do some damage, and might just give her enough time to run for help. Alternatively, a single hard cross from a 100 pounder might not do much damage and would unlikely have any element of surprise. Great in theory anyway.

I think the problem with WT and its variants is that it is trying to be things that it is not. Given its simplistic and relatively linear nature, I don't think it was not designed to be something that is all inclusive or take years to learn. Certainly not something that can beat all styles. Because it is simplistic, it does not work well against a trained fighter who knows it is coming.

[mmafreak422]

life is too short to be spending 2 hrs a night, 3 nights a week in some McDojo. If you can't get your instructor to refund your money, cut your losses and never return.

[black mariah]

This would theoretically work for a lighter woman against an untrained fighter (not used to full contact blows) because it doesn't take a lot of force to break a nose, or hit the Adam's apple, or jab the eye. A sudden barrage which hits some of these spots would hurt, do some damage, and might just give her enough time to run for help. Alternatively, a single hard cross from a 100 pounder might not do much damage and would unlikely have any element of surprise. Great in theory anyway.

I think the problem with WT and its variants is that it is trying to be things that it is not. Given its simplistic and relatively linear nature, I don't think it was not designed to be something that is all inclusive or take years to learn. Certainly not something that can beat all styles. Because it is simplistic, it does not work well against a trained fighter who knows it is coming.

Just say it.

Wing Chun is useless bullshit unless you're fighting against other pussies.

[Liger]

Sounds like you've already mdae some important first steps:

-figured out what you got into is not giving you what you want
-looked for another place to train

As far as style switching, you either like something or you don't. If you try a better WC/WT/whatever _un school and still don't like it, there are plenty of styles besides WC. WC is a hard style to find good techers in, and has HUGE differences from school to school.

Report this guy to other instructors, better Business Bureau, etc. The worse thing you can do is NOT inform other people when someone is selling crap like this, regardless of style.

[tjwingchun]

gecco69 Glad to hear that you have found another Wing Chun school close to you, I have been doing Wing Chun now for over 30 years and teaching it since '83, and I still have students practicing with me from that time. I always tell people the hardest lesson is finding the right teacher. If you ever want any advice or help contact me via my website www.tjwingchun.co.uk

To me Wing Chun is the simple, commonsense application of body mechanics related to violent confrontations.

The basic stance is designed to strengthen your legs, the first third of the first form to strengthening your upper body, especially the whole shoulder unit, while re-programming the elbow for correct structure when punching with a vertical fist.

There is much misunderstanding about Wing Chun and many mis-quotes, understanding strength is one of those areas, if you have greater strength than your opponent then you have an advantage, that is obvious; "Wing Chun never uses muscle strength" is off track, if you don't use your muscles you end up in a heap on the floor, the concept that Wing Chun follows is that you "don't train to overcome strength with strength", otherwise you will always be beaten by the stronger person.

By understanding your own strengths and weaknesses, developing knowledge of how to control long levers, you can re-direct and manipulate opponents, control the elbow and you contol the body.

Isn't that the whole point with Wing Chun? Throw more but relatively weaker punches but aim them at the soft spots against the centerline. Since they are aimed at soft spots and are thrown in a barrage (hence should hit some of these soft spots), they don't need to be as powerful as say a karateka punch or boxer cross.

Wrong! The whole point of Wing Chun is to hit as hard as you can with a continual attack until your opponent is no longer a threat. Soft tissue strikes are an option depending what lines of attack are available as well as the level of violence you are faced with, you may need to eye gouge a drug enhanced psycho, whereas a slap would be enough for a tipsy youth.

The punching that I teach is similar to energies of Dempsey's "Falling Step" and "Shovel Hook". The "chain punching" that most people associate with being Wing Chun's main weapon, is merely a training tool which dictates the possible tempo of hand techniques, much in the same way that boxers use the "speed ball" ie for hand speed and stamina.

This would theoretically work for a lighter woman against an untrained fighter (not used to full contact blows) because it doesn't take a lot of force to break a nose, or hit the Adam's apple, or jab the eye. A sudden barrage which hits some of these spots would hurt, do some damage, and might just give her enough time to run for help. Alternatively, a single hard cross from a 100 pounder might not do much damage and would unlikely have any element of surprise. Great in theory anyway.

The trouble with fights is that people tend to try not to get hit and can become quite evasive, hence the Wing Chun use of multiple continuous attacks, I am not of the opinion that Wing Chun is based around women, just actual fighting, if there is a line of attack open, hit them! When another line opens, hit them again, etc.etc.etc.

I think the problem with WT and its variants is that it is trying to be things that it is not. Given its simplistic and relatively linear nature, I don't think it was not designed to be something that is all inclusive or take years to learn. Certainly not something that can beat all styles. Because it is simplistic, it does not work well against a trained fighter who knows it is coming.

Because it is simplistic it works against ANY fighter, as any fighter can beat Wing Chun, it has already been mentioned in this thread, the truth about Wing Chun is not that it will make you invincible, just it will give you advantages in street situations when you life is on the line.

The simple things about Wing Chun are the fighting principles and concepts of applied body mechanics which are similar to any practical fighting system, what takes the years is the re-programming of muscle co-ordination to achieve those simplistic ideals, much in the same way as any physical activity, the longer you do something the better you get.

[MrMcFu]

Why do the same defeated arguements keep getting repeated? It seems the WT mind virus initiates a predictable auto-response when it is about to be removed from the host.

[tjwingchun]

Why do the same defeated arguements keep getting repeated? It seems the WT mind virus initiates a predictable auto-response when it is about to be removed from the host.

Is that similar to the mindless bullshit that gets instinctively thrown at Wing Chun as a system when it is promoted by condemning it with the antics of LeungTing'ites.

Defeated arguments? "closest distance between two points is a straight line", "when the hand is free, HIT", "ecomomy of motion" or is it the "mine is better than yours", "mine is bigger", "my Sifu is the bestest, biggest, hardest of all of you", "put you in speedos and cover you in baby oil and I would own your ass and bang you around the ring" arguments that are mindlessly played across most forums without resolving anything.

I discuss Wing Chun in terms of scientific referencing to personal body mechanics related to fighting, I do not rely on the personal skills of an individual to justify Wing Chun, simply logic and rational.

It may be predictable that when Wing Chun is called childish names that someone responds with a defence but I have not seen any MMA, NHB or whatever system that does not have weaknesses, I am prepared to admit I am far from the ULTIMATE WARRIOR, but I have been through enough to know MY Wing Chun works.

[MrMcFu]

No it's not similiar.

Lastest mind virus traits:

Auto defense #187 - I don't know about that school, but that is not how we do it.
Auto defense #213 - This is for the street, not sport.
Auto defense #21 - (Shrug) it works for me.
Auto defense #453 - It's simple physics and makes sense. A thinking man's style.

[tjwingchun]

No it's not similiar.

Lastest mind virus traits:

Auto defense #187 - I don't know about that school, but that is not how we do it.
Auto defense #213 - This is for the street, not sport.
Auto defense #21 - (Shrug) it works for me.
Auto defense #453 - It's simple physics and makes sense. A thinking man's style.

Re. Auto defense #187
I can only make comment on the way that I teach/apply Wing Chun and I don't try to defend other schools just as I would not expect one individual to represent any given system.

Re. Auto defense #213
I mainly teach people who are interested in street self defence though I have also taught some who participate in the NHB side of MMA. I welcome what the sports side has brought to the martial arts in general, as if you put yourself up on the pedestal of being a "teacher of a fighting system" then you should know how to fight and be able to represent your beliefs.

Wing Chun has aspects of isolating the body mechanics which relate to the dynamics of punching that have direct relevance for anybody serious about developing increased power.

Re. Auto defense #21
Am I supposed not to suggest that through all the years I worked as a 'doorman' and the hundreds of fights I have been in the middle of, as well as the serious street situations I have survived has nothing to do with my training, as I have only done Wing Chun it must have been that I played rugby, or maybe when I was a child that those wrestling skills I developed in the playground came back to save me.

(Shrug) it works for me.

Re. Auto defense #453
So is being a "thinking man" such a bad thing, I referred to Jack Dempsey's writings as his book reinforces many of the concepts and methods, as well as using similar terminology that I developed independantly. He uses simple science to explain his thoughts, it is a method many use to educate and get people to understand rather than just demonstrate.

Hardly a tainted brush to paint Wing Chun with as "defeated arguments", I don't come into this forum as much as I did when I started visiting several forums as I am not into the bullshido mindset of denigrating people just because I can, I thought that was for the "why your martial arts sucks..." thread. I honestly thought there may have been some folk wishing to talk and discuss their personal views of Wing Chun.

In other forums I have had some excellent discourse with folk from many disciplines, I only scan through here briefly to see if there is anything of interest and only posted here to offer some advice to gecco69, if I want a slagging match I can go to my local pub and wind-up some Mackums.

Well I suppose it is better having a mind virus than an incontinence problem, I will return to my mental musing, and you can carry on enjoying your bullshitting.

[Vulgar42Ox]

tj wing chun, each of your responses were well thought out and fair. if your school is in new york my jkd class always visits wing chun schools for friendly sparring or has wing chun teachers talk to us about wing chun applications, where are you located?

[MrMcFu]

Wing Chung, let's talk about it!