Wing Tsun is an absolute Joke

[Hanniballistic]

Allow me to clear up a few things. ...*snip*.....Also his Before you post something know what you are talking about

In relation specifically to this -

1) How old are you - your profile does not say

2) What rank do you hold in grappling styles (BJJ or otherwise) - your profile does not say

3) What is your competition record (if you have one) - your profile does not say

4) What experience do YOU (not your instructor) have that makes defeating you valid - your profile does not say

I await your responses

[Tonuzaba]

=knuckle dragger]Your telling me Bruce Lee did not know enough Wing Chun?

I see you read my post well. I was telling you just that. He did not learn the whole wing chun system from his si-fu, the late grandmaster Yip Man, because he moved to the States and that disrupted his studies.

Actually after he fought in a challenge match and was suprised by the ineffectiveness of Wing Chun he then began to incorporate other styles into his own.

Who did he fight this match against, when and where? Any details? Quotes of B.L. elaborating on the "ineffectiveness" of wing chun? Please!

Jeet Kun do was the result.

I got my share of B.L. books at home, don't teach me basic JKD history please. JKD was B.L.'s own thing to do. I always thought people who are doing JKD are bit mislead - I understood B.L.'s attempt as a personal one not an institutionalized one, which is what became of JKD with all the instructor's out there...

Strong hand/leg lead is actually an effective technique in some situations because it intercepts the opponents forward movement with force. Hence, "the way of the intercepting fist". Some professional boxers have fought strong side forward, former champion Micheal Moorer is an example. I don't think it is a technique for every situation though because power is sacrificed for speed and accuracy.

Wing Tsun or wing chun in general doesn't have a strong hand lead. The goal is to achieve efficiency in both arms so that it doesn't matter which one is forward and which in guard, you can use whichever the situation calls for/allows.

As far as me being a noob. So what? The amount of posts on a internet web site prove nothing more than you have a lot of free time on your hands.

Yeah, it might.
Your N00bness here is technically still a fact. It doesn say you're less in any MA than me, just that you're a bit younger here is all. Don't take N00b reference to personally.
And really, I am not mean.

[PPlate]

Here's a decent SJJ clip I have posted before

http://www.google.com/videoplay\?doc...52&q=wkf+jitsu

This looks very promising! If MMA were not available where I live, I'd sign up in a heartbeat. Even the striking looks full contact. Do you know what organisation they belong to?

[Goju - Joe]

The governing body is the World Kubudo Federation.

It was a Karate school that organised and hosted this particular comp http://www.sandojutsu.com/

I was there but didn't compete as my son was competing in the Junior division.

And that particualr event was very well organized, judged and hosted.

However that's not always the case.

The guys in the video are from http://www.warriormac.com/ which is where Carlos Newton trains and teaches out of and they're an MMA school which is why their guys can fight.

Also because MMA is illegal in Ontario hard contact SJJ is the closest to MMA that I can get here.

[knuckle dragger]

I see you read my post well. I was telling you just that. He did not learn the whole wing chun system from his si-fu, the late grandmaster Yip Man, because he moved to the States and that disrupted his studies.
Who did he fight this match against, when and where? Any details? Quotes of B.L. elaborating on the "ineffectiveness" of wing chun? Please!
I got my share of B.L. books at home, don't teach me basic JKD history please. JKD was B.L.'s own thing to do. I always thought people who are doing JKD are bit mislead - I understood B.L.'s attempt as a personal one not an institutionalized one, which is what became of JKD with all the instructor's out there...

Wing Tsun or wing chun in general doesn't have a strong hand lead. The goal is to achieve efficiency in both arms so that it doesn't matter which one is forward and which in guard, you can use whichever the situation calls for/allows.

Yeah, it might.
Your N00bness here is technically still a fact. It doesn say you're less in any MA than me, just that you're a bit younger here is all. Don't take N00b reference to personally.
And really, I am not mean.

Firstly, I want to say that I am not trying to insult your style. I don't know your reasons for studying Wing Chun and am not trying to put you down.

I am suprised that you have not heard of the challenge match that Bruce Lee fought in. I can't remember where I read about it. It has been a long time. It was depicted in the movie Dragon, although his back injury was the result of weightraining. Not the fight. It may have been in the Tao of Jeet Kun Do. I used to have that book, I can't remember now though.

I actually trained in Wing Chun for one summer. I had a dislocated knee and could not do a bunch of kicks. In retrospect I should have done boxing but I was impressed by the fact that Wing Chun had no gloves. It was a school in Fayettville NC. The instructor was this skinny guy and he would just move so quickly and expertly, I was impressed. The style is very beautifull. They told me the story of the woman who invented it and I practiced the basics. I did like the simultaneous blocking and striking movements.

I eventually realised though, that the style only really works against someone who is doing the same style back. It is very pretty but not practicle. I would love to see someone who is doing Wing Chun in a real fight, street or MMA. I hope you have some video you could share. So that is why I suggested that the Wing Chun student switch to Jeet Kun Do. In my opinion Bruce Lee took the best techniqes from Wing Chun and incorporated them into his own style. Which is much more realistic for self defense.

[Askari]

I am suprised that you have not heard of the challenge match that Bruce Lee fought in. I can't remember where I read about it. It has been a long time. It was depicted in the movie Dragon, although his back injury was the result of weightraining. Not the fight. It may have been in the Tao of Jeet Kun Do. I used to have that book, I can't remember now though.

That it was depicted in the movie should be enough for you to doubt the veracity of the story about this match.

The idea that someone would have to fight for the right to teach non-asians MA is just mildly bizarre. There were a wide number of chinese people teaching kung-fu to non-asians already at that time. BL did not break any new ground.

Like many MA instructors, I am sure that BL received challanges at his school, he was fairly famous and people probably wanted to find out how good he was.

And on the other part of this thread. BL only received partial __ing __un training and this was part of what forced him to supliment with cross-training in other styles. He was completely correct. __ing __un as a stand alone style is incomplete and does hold to many fixed positions. But it's not as bad as someone who has only trained some of the knock off versions might think.

[M1K3]

That it was depicted in the movie should be enough for you to doubt the veracity of the story about this match.

The idea that someone would have to fight for the right to teach non-asians MA is just mildly bizarre. There were a wide number of chinese people teaching kung-fu to non-asians already at that time. BL did not break any new ground.

Like many MA instructors, I am sure that BL received challanges at his school, he was fairly famous and people probably wanted to find out how good he was.

And on the other part of this thread. BL only received partial __ing __un training and this was part of what forced him to supliment with cross-training in other styles. He was completely correct. __ing __un as a stand alone style is incomplete and does hold to many fixed positions. But it's not as bad as someone who has only trained some of the knock off versions might think.

Let the "Who has the real _ing __un" nutrideing wars begin. Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war!

:qleft3:

[Lu Tze]

/grabs popcorn and puts feet up.

[Dagon Akujin]

So that is why I suggested that the Wing Chun student switch to Jeet Kun Do. In my opinion Bruce Lee took the best techniqes from Wing Chun and incorporated them into his own style. Which is much more realistic for self defense.

Do I have to post this again?

Jeet Kune Do = th3 5uXXors

People who get Bruce Lee "birthday presents" are total fags.

Dagon :new_blueg

[Askari]

Let the "Who has the real _ing __un" nutrideing wars begin. Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war!

Yeah, its hard to not open that shitstorm. To this day I have not seen a single __ing __un video on the net that actually looked like the stuff I learned.

Which means that I certainly was not learning teh r3al __ing __un if what I learned looked like Kyokoshin Karate more then it looked like those strange videos out there.

Then we can get in to discussing if Red Boat __ing __un is teh r3al ninjutsu or not........



But I know I train teh r3al Jiu-Jitsu, so all is good now.

[M1K3]

Yeah, its hard to not open that shitstorm. To this day I have not seen a single __ing __un video on the net that actually looked like the stuff I learned.

Which means that I certainly was not learning teh r3al __ing __un if what I learned looked like Kyokoshin Karate more then it looked like those strange videos out there.

Then we can get in to discussing if Red Boat __ing __un is teh r3al ninjutsu or not........



But I know I train teh r3al Jiu-Jitsu, so all is good now.

Actually I have been following Bruce's lead and simplifying things. My new martial art is 'Hitting Things'. My Grandmaster is Tank Abbot.

Hit something, be happy. /music begins to play with a spicey carribean beat..I don't want to work I just want to beat on the bag all day...spicey music begins to fade/

If you can't tell I was watching some old UFCs yesterday.

[Tom Kagan]

Forgive me if I am long winded but I can't listen to this nonsense any longer.I trained in karate at 12, began wrestling at fourteen. I studied aikido under sensei Mark Reed for 3 years. I then trained in Sambo, BJJ and muay thai under Master Lloyd Irvin ( Camp Springs , MD) for almost 4 years. I did the submission tournaments and the fightclubs, etc. I am not rickson Gracie but I am very good and can hold my own against almost anyone.I am 183 lbs and can bench 365. Also I am very quick with feet and hands. About 6 months ago I started wing chun under Sifu Khallef Ali (LAurel ,MD). This man is probably 5' 5 ,maybe 120.I have never thought highly of wing chun or kung fu. My mind was changed after 1 minute with this man. I have been there about six months and I am still in awe. THere are a lot of bullshit wing chun sifu's and schools out here , but trust me if you think wing chun is a joke , you haven;t seen real wing chunAnd make no mistake I am a grappler by nature and I still love grappling . but if I knew then what I know now I would have done wing chun a long time ago.

Okay, whatever.

I might suggest, however, the first thing you want to do before any more training in his school is to actually LEARN HOW TO SPELL YOUR OWN FUCKING TEACHER'S NAME.


... and yes, that is me right next to him in that group photograph. I had just been vomiting not minutes before that picture was taken after spending all night worshiping the porcelain goddess.


LOUSY NO GOOD OHIO FOOD!!!!!

[Tonuzaba]

^^^Cool, I've seen a real Tom Kagan!!!
You don't look like Homer at all, not even after driving the porcelain bus all the way to Ohio...

[Tomas Drgon]

I was not attempting to boast only to share my experience in being exposed to wing chun. I had the same arrogant nothing else works or is better than BJJ attitude that alot of grapplers have . No offense but some of you know what I am talking about. I went into Sifu Ali school very skeptical , I am that way by nature. The first question I asked him was what would you do against a grappler or muay thai guy. He said well attack me , don't hold back. So I attacked him. I was literally dizzy and my vision blurry and my hands were trapped. this man f**ked me up quick.with ease. He of course showed me what he did . I was blown away.I am not trying to down any martial art or convince any one of anything . I am simply sharing my experience with you.This was not a one time thing.I have seen him regularly knock 6'4" 240 lb guys around like kids. effortlessly.I have been hit by heavyweights in the ring and have a very good chin. But when this little guy hits you its lights out. For who hate the " real wing chun cliche" what real wing chun did you see? who was the Sifu?

Ok, I'm definitely not "an arrogant grappler" and I'd like to try a class with this guy. I'm in Columbia, about 15 mins away from you school.
PM me, I'll come, train with you guys for a day and hopefully confirm your sifu's awesomeness.

Or come to Baltimore Judo Club (http://www.baltimorejudo.mysite.com), Monday or Friday would be best (7:30 pm), but we can also arrange Wed or Sat.
We can play _ing _un after class.

Tomas

[Hanniballistic]

it appears bricklin has ledt the building