Wing Tsun is an absolute Joke

[Tonuzaba]

...had i known what he wanted to show me, i'd let him push it aside, too, cause i wasn't trying to be an asshole there, but i didn't, so he allmost knocked himself out running into my fist.

The good old: got video?
again...
Sounds good, but would be much enjoyable visualised (not that I wouldn't believe you)...

.... I sparred with him, he was a nice guy and i noticed he had some MA background, his reflexes were ok and he seemed to use some kind of technique to deflect my punches. So i asked him afterwards what he did before and he said _ing __un. He asked me how i noticed it, and i said it was due to his defensive movements. Then he wanted to show me what the idea behind it was.

But what really caught my eye in your post is that - if I got you right - you're saying that this dude:
a./ did pretty well in sparring and
b./ fucked himself up while he wanted to show you a technique with you standing statically?
Sounds strange, although shit happens...

Anyhow, I wish -un-schools in general would spit out more people good in sparring and less good in showing static techniques...

[Tom Kagan]

The pinnacle of the Wing Chun Style is supposed to be Bil Jee
'Deadly Hands/Fingers'. As well as some weapon forms.
Never got that far myself in the seven years that I trained.:pity:

Nonsense. The nature of BiuGee is to recover the center as fast as possible. It is meant as an idea of what to do when the shit hits the fan and you already screwed up. Your 'pinnacle' (what a horrible word choice) is actually found in the first two forms.

Additionally the translation you are using is actually incorrect. BiuGee is actually a contraction of a longer poem 'Biu Chun Gee Nahm Jun'. The best translation of the form's contracted name I have found is 'Standard Compass'. This translation actually reflects better on the true nature of the 3rd form. (BTW, 'BiuSao' is the correct way to refer to your idea of 'flying/thrusting/deadly hands/fingers'.)

The choice of using 'eye gouging' was in order to illustrate a type of
technique that would permantly disable an opponent and therefore
is quite hard to prove effectively in a controlled environment.

Then the obvious conclusion is that if it is not proven effectively and you cannot train it effectively, then it is senseless to use this and other similar techniques as the basis of what you consider as a 'pinnacle' of the style. If they are relevant at all, they are obviously minor adjuncts.

2. Self Defence = Using any means neccessary to protect yourself, loved ones.
(ie something swift and disabling to your opponent, to minimise any damage to yourself)

Using your definition, self defense would mean the use of weapons.

However, the style was created after the dawn of the age of gunpowder. Also, of the two weapons of the style, one was already obsolete (Long Pole) and the other is impractical for day to day carry (double short swords). Thus, if we are to use your definition of 'self-defense', the 'nun-who-must-not-be-named' style could not possibly be meant for this purpose, either.

Ahhh.. A point?? It was an attempt to introduce myself and a response to the original post . I kept getting the reminders that I had not posted. So I thought I would.

We have Newbietown for introductions.

To reiterate, anything posted above is only the opinion of the author.

Since so much of the opinions you expressed are without a critical eye towards the subject matter, this is obvious... just as it is obvious to me the severe leaps of logic which were necessary for you to believe your own opinion in the first place.

[wei-chi-student]

Considering we didn't wear gloves his _ing __un should have worked. Especially against a static non-resisting opponent. I guess compliance isn't just lack of resistance, sometimes it needs knowledge on the side of the opponent to work.

[Psycho Dad]

But he didn't do it in slo-mo. He RUSHED forwards pushing my arm aside and...
ran into my stretched out arm, because he failed to push it aside. The result was a little cut under a nice blackeye.
The problem -as i see it- was: he trained this in compliant drills, where his partners KNEW what was comming, had i known what he wanted to show me, i'd let him push it aside, too, cause i wasn't trying to be an asshole there, but i didn't, so he allmost knocked himself out running into my fist.

Fucking comedy right there. I've heard of self-defense before, but not self-offense.

[Goju - Joe]

I think you have quoted the legal definition!

I will edit my post to read in my opinion. Thanks

IMHO

If poking someone in the eye works?

Not trying to be a dick BTW, when you're here long enough you hear the same statements over and over again it gets annoying.

Best of luck, keep posting and read some old WC threads.

[wei-chi-student]

Meh, i might as well post something on topic.
I don't really care if _ing __un is the shit or not. And honestly i don't know. (Allthough i have to admitt that whenever i pass one of our local _ing __un schools and see them doing what i believe is 'chi sao' i can't help myself thinking how retarded it looks.)
The only contact to the system i ever had was when a guy who trained _ing __un for 7 years (he said) came to our gym for some weeks. I sparred with him, he was a nice guy and i noticed he had some MA background, his reflexes were ok and he seemed to use some kind of technique to deflect my punches. So i asked him afterwards what he did before and he said _ing __un. He asked me how i noticed it, and i said it was due to his defensive movements. Then he wanted to show me what the idea behind it was.


HE: Stand there and throw a jab at me.

(we allready put of our gloves, so i threw a jab at him with some disctance to his face and immediately retracted my hand (of course))

HE: No, do not retract it.

(so i threw another jab, this time letting my arm there, stretched out (i was slightly annoyed by this point, but i thought maybe he wanted to show the technique in slo-mo to me and thus needed my arm to be stretched out))

But he didn't do it in slo-mo. He RUSHED forwards pushing my arm aside and...
ran into my stretched out arm, because he failed to push it aside. The result was a little cut under a nice blackeye.
The problem -as i see it- was: he trained this in compliant drills, where his partners KNEW what was comming, had i known what he wanted to show me, i'd let him push it aside, too, cause i wasn't trying to be an asshole there, but i didn't, so he allmost knocked himself out running into my fist.

[Teh El Macho]

I am getting my WC threads all mixed up

Here's DTT's WC video showing WC people fighting full contact with out anyone dying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-RXm...52173&index=35

Damn! Interesting clip. I see gaping holes in their standup (keep going straight, not fighting at angles), but at least they go at it and beat the shit out each other. Trained like that, I'd dare to say it's a viable alternative, perhaps not optimal by itself, but certainly a viable, non-bullshit method of fighting.

[Hanniballistic]

Actually, where I come from it's using reasonable and proportionate force to prevent the continuance of an attack or protect yourself or another person. Stabbing your finger into an eye or punching someone in the throat wouldn't be self defence at all.

Not technically correct - You CAN do that, provided the "lesser options" did not work or were not immediatley applicable or practical

[Sir Grossi]

Actually, where I come from it's using reasonable and proportionate force to prevent the continuance of an attack or protect yourself or another person. Stabbing your finger into an eye or punching someone in the throat wouldn't be self defence at all.

I think you have quoted the legal definition!

I will edit my post to read in my opinion. Thanks

IMHO

If poking someone in the eye works?

[wei-chi-student]

Ahhh.. A point?? It was an attempt to introduce myself and a response to the original post . I kept getting the reminders that I had not posted. So I thought I would.

Welcome to BS then. :hello:

[Granto]

2. Self Defence = Using any means neccessary to protect yourself, loved ones.
(ie something swift and disabling to your opponent, to minimise any damage to yourself)

Actually, where I come from it's using reasonable and proportionate force to prevent the continuance of an attack or protect yourself or another person. Stabbing your finger into an eye or punching someone in the throat wouldn't be self defence at all.

[Sir Grossi]

wow

Thought I'd get some response but not that quick!!


Can't view videos at work, but will later on.


The pinnacle of the Wing Chun Style is supposed to be Bil Jee
'Deadly Hands/Fingers'. As well as some weapon forms.
Never got that far myself in the seven years that I trained.:pity:

The choice of using 'eye gouging' was in order to illustrate a type of
technique that would permantly disable an opponent and therefore
is quite hard to prove effectively in a controlled environment.

IMHO

1. Wing Chun = Self Defence

2. Self Defence = Using any means neccessary to protect yourself, loved ones.
(ie something swift and disabling to your opponent, to minimise any damage to yourself)

Not saying that Wing Chun can not be used in sport, but this was not
the object for it's creation.

The purpose was self defence, and as such I think it gives you a reasonable
grounding/conditioning. But don't let be the sum total of your experience.
All that learning is nothing without regular exercise, practice and aplication
(where appropriate).

Believe it or not I do enjoy sparring! And found that Wing Chun
served me very well when sparring against other styles.

My personal preference is not to enter into real life fight if possible.

Scared of being hurt? Me,yes!
Hippie? Me, Yes
Would you beat me in a fight? Maybe....But you'd have to catch me first!:laughing1

Politics and Self Justification spoil what is essentially a nice little style.

btw. I would not generally punch you in the head as I would probably break
my hand. But a swift side palm to the throat or palm strike to your face
might be ok?
:blob1:
Had to look 'Larper' up. Have you seen me in my Batman Costume?:5wolverin

Ahhh.. A point?? It was an attempt to introduce myself and a response to the original post . I kept getting the reminders that I had not posted. So I thought I would.

To reiterate, anything posted above is only the opinion of the author.

[Goju - Joe]

I am getting my WC threads all mixed up

Here's DTT's WC video showing WC people fighting full contact with out anyone dying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-RXm...52173&index=35

[wei-chi-student]

<putting book down back of trousers>

Like anything in life, there is ALWAYS someone better, faster, stronger,
more intelligent etc etc.

All we can do is suppliment and improve our position to increase our
chances of survival.

With regards to Wing Chun (or any other style of 'self defence') it gives
you the basic tools with which to start your learning.

The more you train the better you become, but NEVER trick yourself into
thinking you are the best !

Wing Chun as far as I understand it, was developed for the purposes
of Self Defence and aimed primarily at travelling Nuns.

First Rule of self defence;

Run!

If you can't run then you need to be as effective as possible
with least amount of effort when it comes to defending youself.

And this is, where I believe Wing Chun is coming from.

All the traditional mumbo jumbo is the 'ART' that goes along with
the application of training methods to get you into a more tuned state of being.

Until you get put into a position where you need to react for real. You will
NEVER be able know how effective your 'style/art' really is.

It is almost impossible to recreate a realistic street fighting scenario
in the gym/classroom.
I personally would not want to see how effective my eye gouging technique really is!
To be really effective it has to be instant and unrelenting. Therefore unpracticeable!
But you ARE going to use it if you have to, in order to defend yourself.


With regards to the 'McDojo' scenario, one of life's 2 main motivators is money!
(the other being sex).

Not very often in this life are you going to something for nothing. Some schools
are more unscrupulous than others. But they are all there to to cover
their expenses if not to make a profit.

My tip to anyone would be never to pay for anything too far in advance.

In summary, anyone who says/thinks that WING CHUN can provide them with
everything they might need, is wrong!

What it can give you, are the basics. It can help you develop a sense of
control, patience and willingness to share strength hope and experience.

(That sounds Gay!:cry: )

You would not be reading or posting here if you had not first learned
the alphabet.

You learn to read and write in School. You learn to swear on the Street!

If you do get into a fight you ARE going to get hurt!

Man, your post has everything, the nun, the street, eyegauges, everything! Everything but a point. Or i just missed it.

[M1K3]

Sir Grossi, so you are trying to tell me that in a full scale, all out fight you have the skill to poke somebody in the eye, but in a boxing ring you would be incapable of punching them in the head? Bullsh*t! Larper!