Wing Tsun is an absolute Joke

[Lu Tze]

Slappy FACE!?!

Hardcore.

[tjwingchun]

And we have the final phase of a WC thread, the "I'm better than you 'cause I'm too much of a pussy to fight back. Look at me! I'm awesome! WOO!" bit.

Why is this the final phase? I can understand that it is now far away from the original post and is falling into the usual stalemate of pettiness, I have never said "I am better than anyone" or that "I'm awesome" and I don't consider the pretence of 'ultimate cyber fighting' via a keyboard "FIGHTING BACK", I have never backed away from a real fight but the intensity of the "Bullshido Cage" is one I can walk away from.

It's basically a microcosm of WC/WT/VT/VC/OMG/LOL fagocity. You won't argue here, you won't fight in a ring, all you do is sit around and play slappy-face with each other.

While you make moronic, childish responses; have somebody fiddle with your ring and sit around playing with yourself.

Honestly, seriously, when was the last time you walked away from class in pain? If it's been longer than the interval between training days... you may be a LARPER.

I am the instructor so it is usually someone else suffering pain after a class, but I do get occasional hits from non-complient students, though I do suffer from permenant back pain due to training I imagine it is nothing compared to the the ass pain you must suffer from the constant beating it must get if your mouth is the same on the street as it is in the safety of the forum.

As I am a noobie you have me with your "LARPER" remark it is not one as yet in my vocabulary.

[JohnnyCache]

Let's back up a little:

Define what makes "Wing Chun" wing chun.

What are the unique elements of your style?

Please describe concrete things, photos would be nice if you have the time and equipment. Don't just say "We use skeletal structure" or somesuch.

[black mariah]

Why is this the final phase? I can understand that it is now far away from the original post and is falling into the usual stalemate of pettiness, I have never said "I am better than anyone" or that "I'm awesome" and I don't consider the pretence of 'ultimate cyber fighting' via a keyboard "FIGHTING BACK", I have never backed away from a real fight but the intensity of the "Bullshido Cage" is one I can walk away from.

Never heard of the Throwdown forum, I take it?

While you make moronic, childish responses; have somebody fiddle with your ring and sit around playing with yourself.

Ooh... can I have your wife/sister/mom (whichever would piss you off more) do it? I know she loves to...

I am the instructor so it is usually someone else suffering pain after a class, but I do get occasional hits from non-complient students, though I do suffer from permenant back pain due to training I imagine it is nothing compared to the the ass pain you must suffer from the constant beating it must get if your mouth is the same on the street as it is in the safety of the forum.

1) You're the instructor. You SHOULD be suffering pain as much as anyone. If you're not out there sparring with everyone else, you need to quit being a pussy. For the sake of disclosure, my instructor doesn't spar either. She's also about five months pregnant, so I think she has a good reason not to...
2) You get hurt when up against non-compliant students?
3) It is. The difference is, in real life, people know I'm fucking with them.

As I am a noobie you have me with your "LARPER" remark it is not one as yet in my vocabulary.

LARP = Live Action Role Playing. See: Ninjas, Systema, Krav Maga, and the majority of WC/WT/VC/WKRP/ROFLTACO schools.

[tjwingchun]

Let's back up a little:

Define what makes "Wing Chun" wing chun.

What are the unique elements of your style?

Please describe concrete things, photos would be nice if you have the time and equipment. Don't just say "We use skeletal structure" or somesuch.

Now we are getting to the "crux" of the problem as I see it.

"What defines and makes WING CHUN"?

This for me is a personal thing, I have only studied Wing Chun, a little Aikido, Choy Le Fut and passing interest in boxing, but since I was 14 years old I have always done Wing Chun.

I have said in this thread that my definition of Wing Chun is "the simple, commonsense application of body mechanics related to violent confrontations." and I still stand by that. Because it is such a broad statement and has no real boundries it says nothing about what "IS" Wing Chun. My view is that is just how I understand how my body can be utilised to create energies and how to apply those energies in conflict situations.

What defines Wing Chun for me is "The most efficient, practical way of taking an attacker out as quickly as possible". The shortest route, the obvious method, the simplest solution, these are Wing Chun.

The forms of Wing Chun are just a library of the different ways the body can be isolated to practice and understand the variety of ways we can generate energy, and the energy that I refer to is kinetic, the energy we get from moving mass.

"What are the unique elements of your style?"

(JUST POSTED THERE WITHOUT REALISING????? STRANGE)

Where was I? Oh yes, I see nothing as such UNIQUE in Wing Chun, all martial arts teach knowledge of body mechanics and how to apply them, some have as part of the system contact training and any style can work as long as the user has the attitude to go with it.

What makes Wing Chun for me personally is that the forms are kept to a minimum, there are only certain ways the arms and legs can move, and once we have understanding of ourselves, chi sau (slappy hands for the mindless) is the perfect vehicle to experience what happens when we are in contact with others and has variations from simple positional training to the extreme of contact sparring.

(WILL FINISH THIS OFF ALTER AS GOT A CLASS TO TEACH)

[JohnnyCache]

You didn't name a single unique element. You didn't discuss a single, actual, physical martial arts technique. You prattled. Quit that, and actually talk about your style.

[tjwingchun]

You didn't name a single unique element. You didn't discuss a single, actual, physical martial arts technique. You prattled. Quit that, and actually talk about your style.

Sorry about the cock-up (that will keep Black Mariah happy).Will write more but it will be later, after the class there is Guinness then visit to parents, but I promise I will reply and try not to prattle :englishmo

[GIJoe6186]

So, in other words, your fucking speechless?

[LolodesBois]

In all the vids of WC/WT/VT I have seen I think the chain punching is THE defining element of the art.

All the rest, and especially "The most efficient, practical way of taking an attacker out as quickly as possible" is found in every other art.

I think the non sparing or 'too deadly to spar' croud simply like to forget that it isn't because a sport fight between two well trained athlete can last a couple of round that they arent't trying to take the oponent as quickly as possible within the ruleset.

[DAYoung]

The wonderful thing about science is that we see its successes everywhere. These successes might not be understandable without tertiary education in science or HPS, but but they are tangible (e.g. computers calculate, planes stay in the sky).

Wing Chung does not have the same tangibility of success.

Even if we granted it the same sophistication in description and prediction as science (which I would not grant), it's pudding isn't much proof.

[meng_mao]

scene: I (a dyed in the wool chunner) bring a cute girl back home, who does WC. Looking to turn up the heat.

me: so babe, what would you do if some big thug came up to you on the street?
her: I would get into an efficient stance as quickly as possible.
me: oooh sexy, but how would you defend yourself if he got fresh?
her: I would use the most practical way of taking him out using the most obvious method.
me: hrm, but but, would you chi sau him?
her: what? Wing Chun is just a library of the different ways the body can move, the energy we get from moving mass.
me: wait what? are you sure you do Wing Chun? What would you do that's some really WC stuff, ya know?
her: well, there's nothing unique to WC; it's all the same really, just knowledge of the body and how to apply it to martial arts.
me: uh, so maybe you'd hip toss him and run?
her: no, I'd probably get in a cat stance and straight blast him in the throat. Maybe eye-jab him a couple times.
me: Oh...oh! I think I just came.
her: ...

[Doctor X]

All the rest, and especially "The most efficient, practical way of taking an attacker out as quickly as possible" is found in every other art.

I, for one, would like to practice the most inefficient, impractical way of taking an attacker out as quickly as possible.

I am switching to Mime-Fu. . . .

--J.D.

[tjwingchun]

So, in other words, your fucking speechless?

No, just sent in the post before I meant to, ask any who have attended one of my seminars and I can assure you the last thing they would describe ms as is ever "speechless" regarding Wing Chun.

Lets start again from scratch dealing with the issues that JohnnyCache raised.

Define what makes "Wing Chun" wing chun.

I said that That is my first thought about what makes MY Wing Chun and how I think of MY Wing Chun, I agree with SCIENCE. Newton saw an apple fall and made him consider the forces that made that happen and theories that became laws were born.

When I look at the dynamics of striking, or how the structure of the body can utilized to create the most efficient structure to transmit kinetic energy in a collision, to me that is Wing Chun. When I see structures like the one in the Dempsey book that are carbon copies of what I teach then I take that as reinforcement for my beliefs and understanding.

The power line fig. 6&7 (page 17) www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

My view is not that Wing Chun is the only possessor of fighting knowledge, simply one method of attaining it and so by that same stance nor can it be seen as being devoid of understanding how to fight as some would have it here. Skill, knowledge and understanding are no guarantee of success in a fight, fights are won on a percentage chance basis, the more you have of those three attributes the better your success levels will be.

Keeping things simple is the most recognised way to win fights, over confidence and dis-respect of your opponent the fastest way to lose.

What are the unique elements of your style?

Please describe concrete things, photos would be nice if you have the time and equipment. Don't just say "We use skeletal structure" or somesuch.

In the earlier post I think the part you are referring to was skeletal structure
When my new site is up and running I will be able to accommodate your request with greater precision, but for the moment instances are limited to what I can show you what I mean.
As part of the written description of the Siu Lim Tao from

www.tjwingchun.co.uk/Forms/first/firstFormA.htm

1 OPENING THE STANCE, stand upright and relaxed with your feet together and your arms by your side, eyes looking straightforward horizontally.
2 Lift your arms up, the hands close as and are held at the side of the chest, the fists do not protrude in front of the chest. The elbows are pulled back and kept in so that they are not visible from the front view, wrist and forearm are in line and held horizontal.
3 Sit down slightly until the toes are only just visible over the knees. It is important not to bend over too far as this will result in an incorrect stance, as well as stressing the knees too much which could lead to health problems later.
4 Maintaining the same level, pivot on the heels pushing the toes out without lifting them off the floor.
5 The balance is now shifted so that the feet pivot on the balls of the feet not on the toes, the heels are pushed out into a completed basic stance. The centre of gravity is over the heels and this brings the correct tension throughout the muscles of the legs. Hips are slightly pushed forward to create a straight line from knees through the hips to the shoulders. Knees are held one fist distance apart.
6 Bring the arms out, forward and down into a CROSSED GAUN SAU position. Cross the forearms just above the wrist and always left over right. The point where the arms cross describes a lower point on the centreline.
7 Maintaining the elbow position turn the hands so that the palms face up, while lifting the forearms to a CROSSED TAN SAU position with the wrists still in contact. The hands should now be at shoulder level and the left hand on the inside. A higher point on the centreline is now defined.
8 This is not a technique or practical fighting move, it dates back to the days when mirrors were not readily available and a pole was placed in the ground; then when the stance was lined up using the CROSSED GAUN SAU and CROSSED TAN SAU the pole was a point of reference to equate to the centreline.
9 Both elbows are now pulled back simultaneously into the rest position. Check that the forearms are horizontal, elbows in, fists level with the front of the chest and the wrists correctly aligned.
What I try to achieve is an ability for the student to teach themselves by observing themselves in a mirror and having clear descriptive terms for the positions they are trying to practice. On this page you can see Yip Man in four basic poses.

www.tjwingchun.co.uk/Forms/first/details.htm

In the Wu Sau you can see the vertical nature of the hand and how the left fist is brought back level with the chest, upright stance giving knowledge of posture and basic stance showing that either leg can be used/moved off.

As soon as I get video footage up and running on my site I will be able to illustrate more clearly and if you give me greater detail of what you are asking about, then I can be even more precise.
Sorry it has taken a bit longer than I had anticipated but I have other things in my life that take precedence

[black mariah]

I said that

So Wing Chun is a gun?

More smartass comments when I get home from work...

[Seraphim]

WC fails in application. And damnit, just because a techinque is done in a ring does not mean its a 'sport' technique.

A jab will break your nose. No matter where you are.
Am armbar will break your arm, no matter where you are.

Good night.