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'ello all.

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    'ello all.

    Here's yet another "I better post something to get rid of the nagging messages"....

    I've been reading through forums for the last couple of days and having a giggle at the various taunting and style baiting that goes on here! It's great!

    Cheers!

    #2
    hmm, After reading about coda & the ultimate prison fighter, I think I've come to realise what Bullshido is really about... So it ain't all about style bashing. apologies!

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      #3
      It's mainly about getting rid of Shotokan and Wing Chun. ;)

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        #4
        Welcome.

        Tell us about your training.
        Originally posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
        "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

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          #5
          My training is a modest 4 years in Shotokan karate a loooong time ago, (16 years!). In that time, I only fought 2 national competitions, I won one & came 3rd in the other.

          Then as I said I had a long break. During that time I got into a fairly visious fight in which I broke my right hand, (don't laugh... it hurt like hell :p) just behind the third knuckle. It has taken me many, many months to get my fist back into a condition where I can confidently hit something again.

          So, I've started training again, this time in Wing Chun. My plan is to study Wing Chun and when i feel that hand is a bit closer to 100% I want to cross train in a grappling / submission art simply because I don't feel that Wing Chun is complete without some ground work, nowadways everyone needs some groundwork....

          Now, In case 6 million Wing Chuners start to flame me for saying that I don't think that Wing Chun is a complete system; I have say that IMO I have yet to see a successful Wing Chun defense when an opponent who really wants to take you to the ground. I'm not bashing Wing Chun, I Love Wing Chun & because I love it and want to see it preserved as much as anyone else, I have to be honest when I talk about it.

          And for the anti Wing chuners... No I don't fire Chi balls, levitate, run up trees, mimic birds, tigers, snakes, bend coins with my bear hands, make people fall down by touching them with my 'pinky' finger or move cups, cars or anything else with my mind. ;)
          Last edited by Tao; 9/25/2006 3:37am, .

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            #6
            Having said that, If any readers are in the Boston region and know TehDeadlyDimMak, I'd appreciate it, if they would throw a cup at his head for me! ;)
            Last edited by Tao; 9/25/2006 3:40am, .

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              #7
              Originally posted by Tao
              I have say that IMO I have yet to see a successful Wing Chun defense when an opponent who really wants to take you to the ground. I'm not bashing Wing Chun, I Love Wing Chun & because I love it and want to see it preserved as much as anyone else, I have to be honest when I talk about it.
              It's cool to be into preservation of arts and stuff, but what's the real end-goal for you to learn WC, if you see glaring problems with it?
              52 blocks documentary: arrived

              "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White

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                #8
                Hiya Meng Mao. I'm really opening myself up for attack here, but here goes...

                I think that if you're standing "toe to toe" with an opponent, (by toe to toe, I actually mean hands touching distance, not kicking distance) Wing Chun is one of the best, most effective systems I have ever seen. During application of Wing Chun, there are no fancy arm waving / dancing moves taught. Just extreemly fast simultaneous attack & defend with some arm trapping thrown in to assist. Strikes are always direct and the general attitude that is taught, is to strike, strilke & keep striking until there is noting left to strike at. I love this no nonsence approach and I find the 'centre line' theory that seems to dictate why the Wing Chun system works the way it does, both convincing & interesting.

                In short, I do honestly believe that the Wing Chun system is as effective, as any other striking art that I know of, which is why I'm into it, not to mention that the complete system can be learn much faster, than most martial arts, simply because It is so simple & direct.

                But, it does have some problems... A lot of the training is very soft, and for that reason when you go to many schools & watch the students training many never even spar. This IMO has a knock on effect, in that you see some quite advanced students making like 3-5 strikes at lightning speeds, but each one of those strikes to be quite frank, would feel like being carressed with a natural yogart to a seasoned fighter. As long as the Wing Chun student trains for some degree of power and doesn't fall into the "dark side" of speed is everything trap, this is not a problem. The other problem is, as I mentioned, Grappling. As far as I'm aware, the system does not contain anything at all to deal with grappling that I've ever seen or heard of.

                I see Traditional (Ip man) Wing Chun as a close contact 'standing' art. I think the best discription i can make is that it's "Boxing without rules". So in that sense, it suffers from simular problems that western boxing has, there's nothing taught at a ground level.

                I'm rambling now, but to answer your question I see all fight situations as having 3 stages or rather ranges, Kicking range, close contact standing range and ground work. To be considered 'competent' (and confident) in these 3 stages you need training in all 3, and for the second (standing, close contact) I feel that Wing Chun is the answer.

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                  #9
                  Sorry dude, you sound just like Phil Elmore in about half that post.
                  Theory is not born out by practice in the ring. Both in boxing and kickboxing, under rules that would encourage WC-like moves, we don't see much of them in action. The overwhelmingly obvious conclusion is that they are not effective. Let's not get into the gloves issue. In both boxing and kickboxing, clinching is allowed (it's not an illegal foul). Why is clinching not addressed in WC, when it's super easy to apply a clinch in the close contact range?
                  52 blocks documentary: arrived

                  "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by meng_mao
                    Sorry dude, you sound just like Phil Elmore in about half that post.
                    Theory is not born out by practice in the ring. Both in boxing and kickboxing, under rules that would encourage WC-like moves, we don't see much of them in action. The overwhelmingly obvious conclusion is that they are not effective. Let's not get into the gloves issue. In both boxing and kickboxing, clinching is allowed (it's not an illegal foul). Why is clinching not addressed in WC, when it's super easy to apply a clinch in the close contact range?
                    No need to apologise, I have no idea who Phil Elmore actually is. :)

                    I only attempted to answer your question of, why i practice Wing Chun when I can see that it has flaws. I tried to answer your question as honestly as I could, given my current knoweldge of the system & my observations of the WC system. I believe that I did actually answer your question... eventually. lol

                    Now, you've moved the goal posts somewhat, and hit me with another question. I'm not sure whether youre just 'baiting the noob' or not, but once again I'll try to answer you.

                    As far as clinching is concerned, If i understand what the term is, ( i think i do ), then I would say that it is addressed. The WC drill that is most commonly used seems to be Chisau, which not only teaches striking, but also clinch avoidance.

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                      #11
                      OMG, After a quick google search to see who the hell Phil Elmore is...

                      Dude! pls, do i really sound like that guy!

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tao
                        ...but also clinch avoidance.
                        Hello,

                        Where? How?

                        Thankyou.

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                          #13
                          I'm going to say as little as possible in case the 'Phil Elmore' effect comes into play...

                          In the practice of Chisau. Oh wait... did i just take that bait again!?

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