Admission of guilt

[MacWombat]

Exposure to real alive martial arts should be mandatory in PE in Elementary school and High School. Of course, then we'd be a nation of superfighters.

[RunningDog]

There are excuses developed by all bullshido instructors on why not to train alive. I still don't think the fault lies entirely on the student.

I think the key to spewing bullshit convincingly is if you really believe it yourself. Most BS instructors genuinely believe what they're saying, even if they have niggling doubts that make them go all red when actually challenged on a point of BS.
It's hard to say if it's believed all the way to the 'grandmaster' at the top. In some cases it is, in some cases it isn't - the grandmasters know full well it's BS, but they make so much money that they put a lot of effort into creating brand new excuses and myths.

A lot of otherwise intelligent people succumb to it. It's often people's first exposure to martial arts and 'fighting', so they have nothing to compare it to.

[ViciousFlamingo]

The point is simple...if you are learning how to fight...and you don't test your shit out...you will probably never know whether it works or not. Or...it will take you 2+ years to come to the conclusion that maybe it doesn't work.

So...while I don't think AnnaTrocity is wrong...I think that not getting exposure to real fighting is the mistake of the student, and is an indication that they aren't paying attention to what they are actually learning...which is how to fight. If your teacher isn't giving you that experience, you need to get it somewhere else.

I think the analogy has been said on Bullshido before about learning how to swim for two years before jumping into the water...that's what I'm talking about.

*shrug* You have a decent argument, and I certainly kick myself wondering why I didn't figure out the bullshido sooner, but the arguments made (too deadly being the major one) are pretty convincing. It's different than swimming, because it's pretty obvious you can practice swimming without drowning, while if you actually think all your techniques are potentially lethal, you wouldn't want to practice them with aliveness. There are excuses developed by all bullshido instructors on why not to train alive. I still don't think the fault lies entirely on the student.

[Southpaw]

The point is simple...if you are learning how to fight...and you don't test your shit out...you will probably never know whether it works or not. Or...it will take you 2+ years to come to the conclusion that maybe it doesn't work.

So...while I don't think AnnaTrocity is wrong...I think that not getting exposure to real fighting is the mistake of the student, and is an indication that they aren't paying attention to what they are actually learning...which is how to fight. If your teacher isn't giving you that experience, you need to get it somewhere else.

I think the analogy has been said on Bullshido before about learning how to swim for two years before jumping into the water...that's what I'm talking about.

[ViciousFlamingo]

This is absolutely correct...but even two years is too long.

People without exposure to real fight training will tend to not know if what they're doing is good or not. 2 months or two years.

Miss Trocity has the correct. I didn't know shit about fighting when I started WC, so I had no real knowledge with which to evaluate the system. Nowadaways, I still don't know shit about fighting, but I at least can tell what's crap and what isn't.

Was I delusional? Yes. Did I have doubts but pushed them to the back of my mind? Yes. Should I have done more research on WC? Yes. But I will argue that "paying attention" has nothing to do with figuring out my art is crap. Attention can never be substituted for real knowledge. If all bullshido was so obvious that anybody paying attention could see it and quit, this site wouldn't exist. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

[Southpaw]

If you cannot figure out a style is worthless and hindering your progress in two years, you are not paying attention.

--J.D.

This is absolutely correct...but even two years is too long.

[Southpaw]

Amp/southpaw, is this as monumental as I think it is?

Yes. Read some of his newer posts. He'll deny but, there is a fundemental shift.

BJJ wins again, twice in one thread.

I'm not sure how monumental it is...but it is certainly a change.

I have been very lucky to be able to train the type of wing chun that I do. Aside from a couple complaints, my wing chun school is very progressive and very realistic. I also think that I was lucky enough to discover wing chun AFTER I already had a shit-load of fighting experience...thus allowing me to pick up the useful parts and determine the shitty parts fairly quickly.

What it really comes down to are two things:
1. After 7 or so years, I just wasn't feeling that I was being challenged anymore. I spent all of my class time training junior students, as opposed to training hard myself. This just totally burned me out.
2. I have known for a long time that there was a hole in my skill-set, that hole was legitimate ground fighting skills. I wanted to plug that hole.

So...I actually left my Wing Chun school before I started BJJ. I was looking for something to do be it lift weights, train another martial art, etc...when a good friend of mine who is a brown belt instructor under Royce said something to me that I've never really heard about a martial art. He said, "you should just try BJJ a couple times, I have no doubt you will love it because IT IS A LOT OF FUN."

Feeling the burn out from my WC school...'fun' sounded really good to me.

So...I gave it a shot, and from the first time I stepped onto the mat, I loved it. Similarly to wing chun, I seem to be picking it up fairly quickly (at least according to my instructors and training partners)...and being half-way decent at something always help w/ the 'fun' factor.

Don't get me wrong though...I am not one of these "I trained wing chun for 5 years before I realized it was shit" people.

Wing chun can work, and I've made it work for me (though in a rather modified form)...and I've seen a few other really good wing chun fighters...it is just really rare.

WC is my first love in marital arts...it has made me into a much better fighter, and the reason I know that is because I have fought many many times before training wing chun, and I have fought many times since. There is a difference.

But...to paraphrase Tom Kagan, although wing chun can and has produced some very good fighters, the fact that the vast majority of the people who train primarily wing chun can't fight indicates that there is something very wrong with the system. I am really starting to believe this more and more the more exposure I have to different types of wing chun.

So...yes...I have changed. Through experience we should always be evolving and changing.

When I go back to my hometown in NY and my old high school buddies give me shit for "changing so much since high school"...I tell them...I have changed a lot since high school, and you guys haven't. Which is worse?

[supercrap]

What do you train in again Doctor X?

[Doctor X]

If you cannot figure out a style is worthless and hindering your progress in two years, you are not paying attention.

--J.D.

[Arhetton]

Perhaps we could invent some sort of "anti _ing _un", and it could be called "actually fighting"...

I had a good laugh today. I didn't know what LARPing meant, so I went and looked it up, and i was like "oh my god, thats what we were all doing".

Gratz southpaw.

[RunningDog]

Take that with the birth of my daughter, and my taking a break from training wing chun (daily) and training BJJ full time...and I thought it was time for a change.

Change is good.

Yes... it's very good. Especially when that change is WC----->BJJ, as Bullshido posters appear to be discovering daily. Let the assimilation continue.
:new_borgs

[Arhetton]

I just sent you a phat email Supercrap

[It is Fake]

Yes. Read some of his newer posts. He'll deny but, there is a fundemental shift.

BJJ wins again, twice in one thread.

[supercrap]

taking a break from training wing chun (daily) and training BJJ full time...and I thought it was time for a change.

Change is good.

Amp/southpaw, is this as monumental as I think it is?

[meng_mao]

Is it just me or did a mod just shout?

That's like the least offensive thing mods do around here.