How Good is an art if it takes Ten Years to Learn?

[jimkelly]

First off, I'm new to the board. I really appreciate it's purpose. Thanks for having me!
My question or concern was, how good can an art be if it takes it's students 10 years to learn. Not perfect, learn. How good can that be for the student. I realize that it takes a long time to grow with something, and internalize it. But ten years to start learning the meaning to the basics(1st level black belt) is tooo long. Is the student supposed to wait ten years to get mugged? Five, six years of commitment(sp) should be enough time. I'm certainly not for quick black belts. On the contrary, but some schools like the Bjj schools, or others with 4 stripes between each belt might be excessive. 8 year purple belts only benefit the schools in my opinion.

[ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE]

First off, I'm new to the board. I really appreciate it's purpose. Thanks for having me!
My question or concern was, how good can an art be if it takes it's students 10 years to learn. Not perfect, learn. How good can that be for the student. I realize that it takes a long time to grow with something, and internalize it. But ten years to start learning the meaning to the basics(1st level black belt) is tooo long. Is the student supposed to wait ten years to get mugged? Five, six years of commitment(sp) should be enough time. I'm certainly not for quick black belts. On the contrary, but some schools like the Bjj schools, or others with 4 stripes between each belt might be excessive. 8 year purple belts only benefit the schools in my opinion.

I think you've failed to grasp how the BJJ belt system works. A BJJ blue belt is quite capable of defending themselves (Frankly I'd put money on them over a BB from almost any art you care to name) And that can be achieved in 3 years.

The BB in BJJ means more than the BB in another art, it certainly doesn't mean that you have just started to grasp the basics.

[TehDeadlyDimMak]

A black belt means nothing in most arts. BJJ is good because even a good white belt can submit a resisting opponent. It's different from most traditional arts in that each belt actually shows a progression in fighting skill.

The reason BJJ takes so long to get a belt isn't because you're only proficient at black belt level, but to show who's the top tier of the BJJ world.

On a sidenote you'll quickly find out Wing Chun gets zero respect on this board, 10 years or not.

[ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE]

But don't be disherartened, so long as you post in noobie town you'l be safe from the viscious ass rapi...

Oh dear.

[FictionPimp]

You fail to grasp something important. Especially important in BJJ.

What is the difference between what I know and what a purple belt knows?

Nothing by time. We know the same armbars, sweeps, chokes, etc. (Ok the purple belt will know more setups and probably some tricks I dont know). The only difference between a purple belt's armbar from the mount, and my armbar from the mount is experiance. He has done that armbar a billion more times then I have and has learned all the flaws in his technique.

It's like boxing. Nobody says "Well, you trained that jab for 5 years, its time we teach you to hook". A boxer knows basics and advanced techniques from eairly on, the difference is only how long and how hard they trained to develop skill in using them.

Why is the belt so important to you? To me the belt is only there to help point beginers in the right direction when deciding who to ask questions too. And to help pick sparing partners.

[Gringo Grande]

You fail to grasp this is the wrong forum for this thread. There is a place called Newbietown where you belong and this thread deserves to be...and it is going there in about 30 seconds.

Try searching and reading before speaking.

GG

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Depending on how often you go, you should be able to apply things in a realativly short period of time. After a few months if you have had a chance to do resistance and any level of contact.

However that doesn't make you "good" or even proficient. Just you should be able to BEGIN applying things or you either: 1 aren't going enough, 2 aren't applying yourself or 3 aren't learning anything.

You do not need to "master" a martial art (be a high level, etc.) in order to be able to use it. That is movie myth. Of course the more time you spend training in it, the more you will learn and the better you should be at it (although that is not always the case).

[Teh El Macho]

jimkelly, who the hell told you a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu means a start on learning the meaning of the basics? :eusa_doh

[ojgsxr6]

Do you guys not realize we've just been hit with a wave of trolls?

[Teh El Macho]

It's as if all the pigeons in the world have joined forces and decided to shit on humankind in one single, synchronized shit rain.

[lovegod]

Here is another tidbit of information. The long holding time/rank progesion for a BJJ'er has is similar to the holding time that Judo had in the 60's/70's and nearly the same information was covered. But, Judo became very comercial, Olympic games slot and instructors started to take short cuts and focus on particular throws and take downs (versus the entire art as Kano wanted) in order to get a piece of the "glory pie". With this thrust Rank progession was sped, andmore people became invoved it hit the airwas and aw enforcemtn and military became involved in it and there was money to be made (Commercialism what americans are known for regardless from which they hailed Look to the Cali Gracie clan for proof of this) and the art became watred down and rank progession became faster and courses sprouted up (similar) to the one that was spoken of in another thread promoting "How To Get Your BJJ Black Belt in 3.5 Years".

All in all, some will stay true and be called "Dinosaurs" and most will ride the wave and become "profiteers". Then the styles within the styles will come...
and You know the rest of the story. The Begining of the "BJJ McDOjo's" Voce quieres fritos e Umaplata com deixe?.

Try not to let this happen to this art, but I think the die has already been cast.

Sincerely

LG

[PointyShinyBurn]

The vast majority of Judo instructors in the US, and indeed everywhere, are amateurs barely breaking even and doing it out of love. The notion that Judo has been watered down by commercilisation is some of the stupidest bullshit I've ever heard.

And the Grappling Blueprint, if you'd actually read the other thread, is not a course but just some advice about how to learn BJJ faster.

[Teh El Macho]

The vast majority of Judo instructors in the US, and indeed everywhere, are amateurs barely breaking even and doing it out of love. The notion that Judo has been watered down by commercilisation is some of the stupidest bullshit I've ever heard.

And the Grappling Blueprint, if you'd actually read the other thread, is not a course but just some advice about how to learn BJJ faster.

You beat me to it :hmh:

That a lot of things changed in Judo due to the interest of making it an olympic sports, that's no doubt. But it's never been comercialized and/or watered down. Belt levels in BJJ and Judo mean different things, and both arts have different strategies and theories (different, yet complementary).

I still have to find a Judo school that's "comercialized" or run for profit. There must be, but so far none around me. Every single Judo school I know either is a non-for profit org, or a sport club in a university, or is running at bare minimum with the instructors putting even money out of their pockets to get the shit from crumbling. I've seen it!!!! :biblethum

I find this remark insulting.

[lovegod]

I am not sure I agree with you on The vast majority of Judoka Sensei are amateurs. Nor do I know, neither do you know what their financial situations are.

And if they were doing it out of love and I am sure most martial artist regardless of the martial art do it out of love...I think they should be doubly blessed.

I am against the ones who provide sub-standard teaching and are ill-informed of their art, or worse yet, who create their own art without substantial martial education themselves. And purport it as the new great thing full of ancient secrets.

And if you think what I worte is some of the stupidest Bullsht you have ever heard And I kow you meant to write, I ever read, lol....you should get out more often, turn off the Computer and stop insulting people on the internet you do not know.

It is called life, live it.

With Great Love

LG

[PointyShinyBurn]

The things you are talking about are vanishingly rare in Judo, and you're just parroting half remembered things you read on Bullshido. I'll insult you if I like, because doing it in hyperbolic ways amuses me, and because you're an idiot.