BJJ and Judo.

[MONGO]

If your opponent is not finished and you need to finish him, you can pin or mount and then strike him into unconciousness. You may also decide to use chokes or submissions to injure/incapacitate him until you can get away. You will need to go to the ground to perform those movements, just a fact of life.

It is possible to perform standing chokes but they are easily excaped unless you are extremely good at them.

[Teh El Macho]

a question about judo in self defense i dont want to start another thread. ok i get into a altercation or self defense situation. they guy attacks i throw him to the ground with a judo throw. my question is now what do i do next..

If you get the throw right, most likely your opponent will be stunned/in pain/unconcious. When you practice, you more or less control how your partner falls, but you can make the throw happen in a way that your opponent falls on his head for example. Now consider if it occurs on concrete.

That's basically the idea in Judo; you end the fight with a powerfull throw. Easier said than done, but that's why practice is important ;)

i know there are some submissions i could follow up with maybe. but i already have standing position why go to the ground.

Wait, wait, wait. Things are not that simple and clean. And you are thinking too much ;)

First, don't assume you are or will be standing. In a fight, you never have 100% control, and you may end up going to the ground. I had an altercation with a cocky aikidoka once who, in his infinite arrogance tried to hip-throw me. Surprise, surprise, I clinged to him like a baby lemur to its mother, brought him down with him, and ended with my knee on his belly.

Also, you may be going to the ground by design. You can make a throw much more powerfull by falling on top of him. Not only is your opponent striking the ground with the force of his weight, but with your own.

You don't really want to go to the ground, but you should never expect that you will always be standing. That would be a very dangerous assumption.

Whether you remain standing or falling with your opponent will be dictated by the circumstances, by his experience, and by your experience.

now i kinow alot of people say run ,but what if im in a closed area and throwing someone does not T.K.O them.

what am i supppose to do. wait for him to get back up.

No. No. No. Just because Judo doesn't allow striking in practice or competitions, that does not mean that you will close your mind and do strictly Judo in a real life confrontation.

If you went down with him, most likely you are in close to be in a better position from which to mount him and punch/elbow/knee the shit out of him. Or you can try to submit him if you are confident enough for that. You'll do what you need to do in that case (submit him, punch him into a pulp or until you can get up and get the fuck out.)

This actually happened to me. I had an argument when I was in HS, and I was thrown to the ground (with something resembling a seio nage); it caught me by surprise, stunned me and before I realized, the fucker was on top of me raining punches. One of my classmates managed to pull him away from me and my face resembled a fucking, gigantic rasberry. Submission by punching-jitsu :viking:

Ok, back to the topic... If you are standing and you cannot run and your opponent is not KOed, kick the shit out of him. Don't let him get up; if he tries to get up, kick him. If he is managing to get up, clinch him and throw him again.

i liek judo and jujitsu,but before i sign up for a class. i kind of want to know where practionersw fall on this.

Judo and Jujitsu gives you tools. Tools have advantages and limitations, and the best thing is 1) be aware of them and 2) to crosstrain.

Having said that, if you have a minimal, yet decent training in a single effective art, be it Judo, JJ, BJJ, Boxing, MT, whatever, you'll have a much better chance to defend yourself against your average, uneducated punk.

[RoninPimp]

This thread hurts my brain...Ignorence must indeed be bliss...

[Method2Madness]

If your teacher knows judo then you should expect some judo throws to be taught at some point in time. My teacher is a black belt in judo, but prefers to teach wrestling take downs. He does, however, teach judo techniques when someone asks him too. So it really depends on what your teacher knows and what he prefers to teach.

[pauli]

a question about judo in self defense i dont want to start another thread. ok i get into a altercation or self defense situation. they guy attacks i throw him to the ground with a judo throw. my question is now what do i do next..

you've thrown your attacker beautifully. he drops from waist height onto the hard concrete, and is stunned for the moment. two voices echo in your head, one talking about what has just happened, and the other about what is about to happen.

"ippon!"

"GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GOL GOL GOL GOL!!!!!!!"

(and for the original question, the takedown game i've seen from most bjj guys consists of clumsy double legs they just saw on ufc, or a good double leg they learned while wrestling.)

[Hannibal]

If you lift someone up and dump them had on concrete, I very much doubt they will be in a hurry to get up real quick.

[bob]

This is interesting stuff. I'm thinking of starting a grappling style to complement my stand-up, mainly for self defence. I had a suspicion that BJJ seemed to have a missing link somewhere - ie what do you do between standing and the ground - and what's been said here seems to confirm that.
I might give judo a try, then add BJJ at a later date when I have the time to devote to it. Judo also seems to have the advantage of being a lot cheaper almost universally, and in many cases almost non-profit.
What is it with BJJ that everyone feels the need to charge top dollar? Supply and demand I suppose, given the lack of BJJ Black and Brown belts around.
Do any of you judoka have advice about what to look for in a school - apart from the obvious like good instructors and plenty of realistic sparring.

[PointyShinyBurn]

Some BJJ schools will teach a solid takedown game, some won't. I suggest you check out the local ones and find out for yourself rather than relying on broad generalisations.

[FictionPimp]

Our bjj club has brought in boxing, judo, MT, and other coaches to help teach us to fill the holes in our game.

[PirateJon]

This is interesting stuff. I'm thinking of starting a grappling style to complement my stand-up, mainly for self defence.

This is a misconception a lot of people have. I had it too until I started bjj. The misconception that taking a "stand up art" and also taking a "grappling" art will be the same as training 'MMA'. This is not at all correct, and if you're talking sd or pro/am fighting, that's where the difference is important. To use a horrible car analogy, it would be like training in "steering" and "braking" and expecting to know how to drive a car.

Sure if there's no MMA place around you, train both separately, but be aware of the limitations.

[War Wizard]

For self-defense, I'm always a big fan of monkey stomping someone after they are thrown, but unfortunately simian tactics are not recognized as valid techniques by the Kodokan.

[SuperShmoe]

This thread hurts my brain...Ignorence must indeed be bliss...

Can you please take a moment to enlighten us all please? It's kind of like dangling a dog treat over a puppy and not giving it to him. Why are you mean to puppies? :icon_cry:

[Teh El Macho]

For self-defense, I'm always a big fan of monkey stomping someone after they are thrown, but unfortunately simian tactics are not recognized as valid techniques by the Kodokan.

That's because simians have the real jiu-jitsu. Just ask Ashida Kim :)

[War Wizard]

That's because simians have the real jiu-jitsu. Just ask Ashida Kim :)

Muahahaha... good one.

[GoldenJonas]

2. If you had performed a cursory search, you would have found the many existing threads tangentially answering your question. Most BS members would prefer if newer members made greater use of the Search Function. The Search Function tab is located at the center and top of every page, along with the other Forum User Controls. I admit this search would have taken some serious digging to find applicable answers, which leads me to..

Most BS Members don't know what "tangentially" means.....{GJ flips JNP a quarter for his use of a five sylable word}