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    #31
    Why would you respect me if you thought I was so inept in my teaching? Cause I was a nice guy?
    I didn't think you were inept. I didn't say it, either. Nor did I imply it. You can feel free to let that go any time now. I thought you taught WTF TKD and WTF TKD turned out not to be what I wanted.

    I want to also point out that besides training with me a very short time that it has been several years before these postings. Which can explain why your perception of that time is skewered.
    Very true. And the word is "skewed."

    I'm guessing it was the wheelchair.
    Sure. I only respected you for your wheelchair. The irony is that crutches and leg braces awaken within me a primordial hatred I can't explain. But wheelchairs? Automatic respect.

    I'm guessing it was the wheelchair.
    I wasn't around long enought to know that your black belts were great athletes and very good at the sparring they did? How long does that take?

    Also only being a good athelete in a fighting sport is not the same as with football. Did anyone kick you in the head in football? Yet you assume that you can take a punch to the head? What experience did you have at that time to make the claim that you could take a hard blow to the head? Yet you say my students (who were training in martial arts) could not. You confused sport TKD with the art. Another skwewered perception.
    What was that all about? I assume I can take a punch to the head? And it has something to do with football? I didn't say--or imply--anything even remotely like that.

    Also only being a good athelete in a fighting sport is not the same as with football. Did anyone kick you in the head in football? Yet you assume that you can take a punch to the head? What experience did you have at that time to make the claim that you could take a hard blow to the head? Yet you say my students (who were training in martial arts) could not. You confused sport TKD with the art. Another skwewered perception.
    Again, what does that have to do with anything? Matt Hughes beat Royce Gracie. That means that BJJ and TKD are equivalent somehow? Bill, I'm sorry, but they're not. Period. Of course BJJ has weaknesses, and they have been exploited to great effect over the years--by wrestlers, by Judoka, by Sambo guys, by kickboxers with some grappling, by guys who train purely for MMA.
    Not by TKD black belts who aren't seriously trained in one of the "alive" arts or sports.
    Great, you know Matt Hughes' father. So what? I should be training in TKD and not BJJ because Matt Hughes beat Royce Gracie? Hughes wouldn't have toyed with the best TKD practitioners in the world the way he did with Royce? If you're saying that, you're mistaken. If you're not saying that, then what you posted doesn't make sense.

    You had great front snap kicks and punches that could smash a face. What did you expect? That you would get to do that in a class enviroment? REALLY get to kick someone in the groin and then re-arrange their face with punches? You aren't being realistic.
    Smash a face? I didn't even know how to HIT a face. I was doubtless very impressive against target pads, but I had no idea whether I could hit someone in the face or anywhere else--and no idea whether I could avoid the same, or how I would react if hit.
    Why is it not realistic to strike against resisting opponents? Boxers do it. Muay Thai does it. Every MMA gym does it. Why can't TKD do it?
    This is known at Bullshido as the "2 d34dly" argument. It doesn't hold water. I've been punched in the face with boxing gloves, with MMA gloves . . . . it's not that big a deal. Bare knuckles aren't that different from light MMA gloves except that they might cause more cuts and tearing. Worse for the striker's hands than anything else.
    Can't strike the groin with full power in training? That's fine--therefore, DO NOT kid yourself that a strike you don't even practice the way it's going to be carried out is going to end a fight.

    And once again, had you told us you were more interested in learning to fight then I would have insisted you come to the practical self-defense classes when I gave them. I could have TALKED to you for 30 minutes and doubled your ability to fight.
    I don't recall those classes. What would I have learned there? If you can double my fighting ability with a 30-minute lecture, maybe I'd better come back and hear it.
    I'm not going to lie to you, Bill; I don't see how that's possible.

    Had you told me self-defense was front and center in your goal as a beginner you would have left the first class having learned real and effective techniques that DO work. But your stringing my wife and I along caused us to focus on what you yourself said was important to you.
    Again--so I did different things than the rest of the class, or the rest of the class was also there only for fitness and not for self-defense?
    Bill, you're not going to like where this is going, because if there was anything--anything--negative about my experience at your school, it had nothing to do with you and everything to do with WTF TKD. I don't know why you won't accept that, but it's true.

    So what are the effective techniques I would have learned if I'd had the commitment to stay, and why was I told that the self-defense techniques I was being taught were effective if they're not?

    So, on one hand you compliment us, then come with a back-handed insult that you made from pure ignorance. That's hardly fair.
    With all due respect, Bill, that's bullshit. I complimented you and discussed the reasons I don't want to train in TKD. Look around this website a little and you'll find I'm not the only one with those concerns. I did NOT insult you. You are now the only one in TWO threads on this topic who has decided to interpret my words as derogatory towards you, your wife, or your students.
    Tae Kwon Do is what it is.

    two years ago I was inducted into the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame. . . . So, I can take your noob (to martial arts) assesment of me or I can take a world champion and legendary martial artists word for what I do. care to guess who I would believe most?
    This is the problem. You found two posts by me about you on this website. In each one, I said things about you very much like what Wallace said. But you offer me this false dichotomy, that either you have to believe him or me. Why not believe us both, since we BOTH said that you are a man to be respected and admired?

    Had you opened up and told me what your true goals were I would have suggested that because of your girth, that you go train in a grappling art. You are much better suited for that kind of endurance than you are for the kind of endurance needed to fight standing up. I am glad that you did find an art that suits you.
    Huh. Well, if you say so.

    However, TKD is the most popular martial art in the world. I wonder why, especially if it is no good for actual self-defense.
    Oh, come on. We both know why. It was adapted (some would say watered down) until it could be everything to all people, including becoming an Olympic sport. It was also marketed hyper-aggressively worldwide as everything from a deadly fighting art to the cure for kids with ADHD to a fun activity for birthday parties.
    Popularity is not goodness.

    I hope you are being more sincere with your BJJ instructor than you were with me. By not being sincere you can't expect any instructor to fill your needs.
    However I have long known that one art is not good enough. That is why we now teach Kajikembo out of my school. If you are not familiar with it, google it. There is no sport to it. It is only concerned with actual self-defense and not a lot of other peripheals that are part and parcel of leanring an entire system devoted to one or two aspects of fighting.
    Think what you want. I was not insincere in my dealings with you. I made some mistakes, but they were mine to make. I didn't lie to you and I didn't mistreat you.
    I'm familiar with Kajukenbo. There was supposed to be a group in St. Louis training it right and mixing in BJJ and other arts as well. Is your instructor part of that bunch?

    I also have guest instructors come in and give seminars. Ever heard of Steve Fristo? Steve Aldus? Brenden Huor? The first two are legends though they don't acknowledge the fact as they are humble. Both have also complimented me on teaching real martial arts as opposed to opening up a school that just pretends.
    I could Google those guys and pretend, but . . . no, I don't know of them. AGAIN, I don't disagree with them. I just don't want to learn the art you taught there anymore. I don't know if you can separate that from you and your school, but I can. I do.

    I would not be bothering correcting any of your mis-conceptions but my wife googled our name and this site came up. I would have let it go had you not called me out by name. You did so I am rebutting the short-sighted evaluation of who I am and what I do.
    Once again, with all due respect, bullshit. If you want to correct facts I got wrong, that's fine, but nobody called you out. I spoke of you with the highest respect in a thread in which, you might notice, I have just about the only post with anything positive in it at all. Same thing in the other thread--we got you, and we got Kyle Maynard--you're the ones getting the respect. Everyone who read it, except you, read it that way.
    I'm not going to say anything disrespectful about you, and I'm not going to say much positive about WTF TKD. That's just the way it is.


    Serious question--are you so closely tied to TKD that I can't criticize it without criticizing you by default? Even when I go out of my way to state explicitly that I respect you and recommend you?
    You seem to think that's window dressing, but I have actually recommended your school to co-workers who want TKD for themselves or their kids. You can choose to believe that or not--obviously nobody has signed up and dropped my name--but I really don't see the disrespect. Maybe you're right and I don't really understand the "traditional martial arts" version of respect.

    I hope you are still training in BJJ as that would most certainly would fit your abilities far better than TKD. But if your instructor is telling you either that BJJ is all you need to know or that TKD is not a valid self-defense art then he is doing you a dis-service.
    I didn't need an instructor of another martial art to tell me that. If it makes you feel any better, my BJJ instructor has never mentioned TKD. I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the TKD line anymore. I notice in the other thread that you've had your own doubts and undergone your own changes in the last few years--changes that pushed you away from the WTF. You are the only one in this thread who said anything about BJJ being the only thing someone needs to know. I certainly didn't say it. Since that first couple of classes, I've done a little Judo, a little boxing, a little Sambo, some wrestling mostly for takedowns. I still suck at boxing and Muay Thai, but I haven't found that the endurance required is any different than grappling endurance. I also haven't found that BJJ is suited to fat guys or that striking is harder for big people than grappling, but as you say, I'm only a beginner.

    I have to say Don, it is very disappointing to see any dispariging comments about me or my wife made from something years ago that you never really gave a fair shot.
    But so long as people like Wallace think I've got it right it bridges any animosity over it.
    Again . . . who disparaged you?
    Is it possible for me to dislike TKD and like you, or do I have to choose? You like TKD. You teach it and train in it. So what? You're probably a Beatles fan, too, and I'm not a bigot. Some of my best friends are Beatles fans. No, really.

    I trust that he is wise and does not mislead you in either perspective. If you ever care to, feel free to come by my studio on a tuesday at 6:30 and take a free kajikembo class on me. I'm sure you would see that not only would it be more suited for you than TKD, but you would also learn hown to fight in all the ranges of hand to hand (mano el mano) fighting. Not just grappling and not just striking but a combo of 5 arts that refined themselves down to only techniques that work on the street. I am also opening up two locations this year. They will not be TKD schools but rather schools that teach two or more arts.
    Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll bring $80 and take that old uniform off your hands, too.
    I'll certainly come to your tournament mentioned in the other thread. Class will depend on my schedule.
    Where are you opening the new schools? Will they offer TKD, or only Kajukenbo? If you put me through this fiskfest for criticizing TKD and then it turns out you're not going to offer TKD at your new schools, I shall purse my lips and shake my fist at you thusly.
    You can't see it, but I'm doing it right now.

    Also, feel free to drop in just to say hello. Just because I so adamantly disagree with portions of what you said doesn't mean I don't think you are a swell guy. We often wondering how you, your wife and those lovely twins youy adopted are doing.
    Same here. The boys are 10 now, going on 11. We just had a new one the old-fashioned way in March; his name is Sean. Life is crazy but life is good. It's too bad this is the reason we got a chance to talk.
    FWIW, if I'd known you were going to be offended, I'd have left your name out of it. I thought I was giving kudos.
    *********************************************

    Comment


      #32
      My parents put me in some generic 'screaming in pajamas while punching the air' class when I was a wee one. It might have been TKD, maybe it was karate or something. I don't remember, I was pretty young.
      "Prison is for rapists, thieves and murderers. If you lock someone up for smoking a plant that makes them happy, you're the fucking criminal." - Joe Rogan

      El Guapo says dance!

      Comment


        #33
        It's not my business, but I can't resist. Some of this stuff is just unacceptable.

        Originally posted by Bill Auvenshine
        ALL martial arts have holes.
        Granted. That does not mean that all martial arts are equal, though. Nor does it mean that the example you use is even close to valid, as I'm about to explain.
        Did you notice that Royce Gracie (a BJJ) got the snot beat out of him by a wrestler?
        Who, Dan Severn? I can't think of anyone else he's fought who was purely a wrestler, so you must be talking about Dan Severn, who Royce defeated at UFC 4 with a triangle choke after spending fifteen exhausting minutes on the bottom. Severn was a world-class Greco-Roman wrestler, you know. Outweighed Royce by ninety pounds. Oh wait, you meant Matt Hughes? The guy who beat Joe Riggs by Kimura; Frank Trigg by RNC (twice); GSP, Brett Al-azzawi, and Joe Guist by armbar; Eric DaVila and Maynard Marcum by keylock; Shawn Peters by choke; Robbie Newman by arm triangle; and Chatt Lavendar by side choke? You're totally right. Matt Hughes clearly lacks any training in jiu-jitsu or submission grappling.

        I mean, it's not as if he's won eighteen times by submission, versus only fourteen by KO/TKO. Except that, yes; it is exactly like that.

        I know Matt Hughes father.
        Irrelevant.

        Matt set records with his wrestling but when he entered NHB contests he basically won most of his fights by simply picking up his opponent and then slammed them to the floor.
        Not true ("most") and also, irrelevant, since Gracie was an extremely RECENT fight that WAS NOT WON in this manner.

        Interesting that a guy who has a family named style of BBJ LOST
        All competitive fighters lose. Hughes lost to BJ Penn, for instance, and later returned the favor. Royce was never the best in his family, and was chosen to represent the Gracies in the early UFCs precisely because of how impressive it would be for a man of his physique to defeat such obviously more athletically powerful and gifted opponents. Royce may not have been outweighed by Hughes, but Hughes was clearly MUCH stronger. Leaving aside that Royce hadn't fought in a long time, and leaving aside his age as well, you can certainly make the case that he was too one-dimensional a fighter. That's not a problem with BJJ fighters in general, however, as BJ Penn, Matt Serra, and several of the younger Gracies (among many, many others) demonstrate. I have never heard one of my instructors tell me that ground skills are all I need. That is not, and never has been, a characteristic teaching of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

        to a farm boy
        That farm boy is a world-class athlete whose wrestling and jiu-jitsu skills overwhelmed Royce. Rorion was a bitch for saying it, but in a way he was right: Hughes beat Royce with jiu-jitsu. It was an almost Gracie-like display, with a wrenching armbar and mounted punching that any BJJer would envy. Also, making light of Matt Hughes and his breadth of training, ignoring his unbelievable talent and well-rounded abilities in order to further deride Royce and BJJ is pretty unfair and insulting.

        who pummled Gracie and beat him early in the first round.
        Late in the first round. The rounds are five minutes, the match ended at 4:39. Additionally, you ignore the potentially career-ending armbar Hughes had on Gracie, that he decided not to hold on to after realizing Royce wouldn't tap. Why would you ignore that? Oh right, because every single rhetorical choice you make here seems designed to denigrate Royce and BJJ, and if you did reference the armbar you'd be forced to admit that Hughes didn't learn that technique from amateur wrestling. Not particularly intellectually honest.

        THAT is the hole in BJJ, a lack of stamina ON YOUR FEET MOVING AROUND.
        Stamina isn't a component of a martial art. Stamina is a characteristic of an athlete. Royce and Sakuraba had a match that lasted an hour and a half. In the early UFCs, it was the strikers who tired themselves out much faster than Gracie. You're going to have to provide a lot of empirical evidence to demonstrate that BJJ fighters have, generally speaking, less endurance than other fighters. Being overpowered, by the way, is also much more tiring than overpowering someone, regardless of how good your cardio is, unless you're pulling a pure rope-a-dope strategy (inadvisable in MMA).

        BJJ is great if you can get your hands on someone, as in a ring.
        Yes. It is.

        But the street is different.
        Even a casual examination of this site would have resulted in you finding all sorts of responses to this tired old crap, including the abstract of two different police studies, one by the LAPD, the other by another PD, indicating that statistically, most fights go to ground. The second study in the group found that police, when engaged, most commonly found themselves under threat of being taken to the ground, and also explained that the majority of takedown attempts proved successful. The study then went on to explain that this was consistent with the most common reported patterns of assault against civilians. Finally, the overall conclusions included evidence that police officers skilled in ground-restraint and submission skills were less likely to inflict injuries on those they apprehended, less likely to be injured themselves, and less likely to be cited for excessive force. All of this indicates that BJJ is good for self-defense; it teaches you how to stay up if you want to stay up, how to escape if you end up getting taken down, how to end up on top if you do want to go to ground, and how to protect yourself if you find yourself on the bottom. BJJ teachers don't advocate going to ground in every situation: they just recognize that people will most often try to put you there, and will often succeed, so it's a good idea to know how to avoid takedowns and how to fight if taken down. If it's appropriate, they do suggest that taking someone else down is better than getting taken down yourself.

        But BBJ is not nearly as effective as TKD is when faced with multiple attackers.
        No art is. You have provided ZERO evidence that TKD is, and no one has asserted anything about BJJ. The most effective means of surviving multiple opponents is flight. You can't flee if your opponent tackles you and you don't know how to stuff the takedown or escape once on the ground. BJJ teaches you that. TKD does not.

        Under that situation the LAST thing you would want to do is go to the ground or focus on the one who has hold of you.
        The last thing you would want to do is stick around. Unfortunately, if you don't know how to grapple, you may not have a choice.

        However, TKD is the most popular martial art in the world. I wonder why, especially if it is no good for actual self-defense.
        Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. Nazism was the most popular political ideology in Germany circa 1932-1945. That didn't make it right (this is only an instructive example of the ridiculousness of an argument constructed in this way, not a comparison of TKD to Nazism). Also, TKD looks pretty, while BJJ arguably does not (it's one of those things you have to DO to appreciate). And finally, BJJ, Muay Thai, and MMA combined curriculum styles are all growing much faster than TKD is.

        Ever heard of Steve Fristo? Steve Aldus? Brenden Huor? The first two are legends though they don't acknowledge the fact as they are humble. Both have also complimented me on teaching real martial arts as opposed to opening up a school that just pretends.
        Name dropping is not usually a good sign.

        I hope you are still training in BJJ as that would most certainly would fit your abilities far better than TKD.
        This idea that grappling arts are best for guys of great size and girth makes BJ Penn, Sean Sherk, Matt Hughes, Royce Gracie, Rodrigo Gracie, Jeremy Horn, and especially Royler Gracie very sad. Royler weighs like 145, maybe, so clearly, grappling is not for him.

        This is actually a very common misconception about submission grappling: that the little guy is more likely to be dominated on the ground than on his feet. While it's true that a little guy put in a bad ground situation isn't going to be able to escape, it's also true that Royce was the smallest competitor in the first four UFCs and he won three of them. And Royler won the absolute division of the ADCC several times, if I'm not mistaken, despite being one of the smallest competitors (there may have been one guy smaller than him).

        But if your instructor is telling you either that BJJ is all you need to know
        I doubt his instructor has said that, and it's certainly not something I've ever heard MY instructor say.

        or that TKD is not a valid self-defense art
        This, to make a pun, is a more defensible statement. Anything that doesn't include grappling in the curriculum will, on its own, not provide good self-defense skills in a world where fights usually end up with both participants on the ground.

        I'm sorry to get involved in this, but this is a public forum, and those comments about Hughes and Gracie were particularly misleading and rhetorically unethical. I don't appreciate that kind of stuff.

        Comment


          #34
          I'm not sure what the Hell this is about, but I'm sure it's moved beyond Newbietown. Can a mod move this?

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by kohadril
            It's not my business, but I can't resist. Some of this stuff is just unacceptable.


            Granted. That does not mean that all martial arts are equal, though. Nor does it mean that the example you use is even close to valid, as I'm about to explain.

            Who, Dan Severn? I can't think of anyone else he's fought who was purely a wrestler, so you must be talking about Dan Severn, who Royce defeated at UFC 4 with a triangle choke after spending fifteen exhausting minutes on the bottom. Severn was a world-class Greco-Roman wrestler, you know. Outweighed Royce by ninety pounds. Oh wait, you meant Matt Hughes? The guy who beat Joe Riggs by Kimura; Frank Trigg by RNC (twice); GSP, Brett Al-azzawi, and Joe Guist by armbar; Eric DaVila and Maynard Marcum by keylock; Shawn Peters by choke; Robbie Newman by arm triangle; and Chatt Lavendar by side choke? You're totally right. Matt Hughes clearly lacks any training in jiu-jitsu or submission grappling.

            I mean, it's not as if he's won eighteen times by submission, versus only fourteen by KO/TKO. Except that, yes; it is exactly like that.


            Irrelevant.


            Not true ("most") and also, irrelevant, since Gracie was an extremely RECENT fight that WAS NOT WON in this manner.


            All competitive fighters lose. Hughes lost to BJ Penn, for instance, and later returned the favor. Royce was never the best in his family, and was chosen to represent the Gracies in the early UFCs precisely because of how impressive it would be for a man of his physique to defeat such obviously more athletically powerful and gifted opponents. Royce may not have been outweighed by Hughes, but Hughes was clearly MUCH stronger. Leaving aside that Royce hadn't fought in a long time, and leaving aside his age as well, you can certainly make the case that he was too one-dimensional a fighter. That's not a problem with BJJ fighters in general, however, as BJ Penn, Matt Serra, and several of the younger Gracies (among many, many others) demonstrate. I have never heard one of my instructors tell me that ground skills are all I need. That is not, and never has been, a characteristic teaching of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.


            That farm boy is a world-class athlete whose wrestling and jiu-jitsu skills overwhelmed Royce. Rorion was a bitch for saying it, but in a way he was right: Hughes beat Royce with jiu-jitsu. It was an almost Gracie-like display, with a wrenching armbar and mounted punching that any BJJer would envy. Also, making light of Matt Hughes and his breadth of training, ignoring his unbelievable talent and well-rounded abilities in order to further deride Royce and BJJ is pretty unfair and insulting.


            Late in the first round. The rounds are five minutes, the match ended at 4:39. Additionally, you ignore the potentially career-ending armbar Hughes had on Gracie, that he decided not to hold on to after realizing Royce wouldn't tap. Why would you ignore that? Oh right, because every single rhetorical choice you make here seems designed to denigrate Royce and BJJ, and if you did reference the armbar you'd be forced to admit that Hughes didn't learn that technique from amateur wrestling. Not particularly intellectually honest.


            Stamina isn't a component of a martial art. Stamina is a characteristic of an athlete. Royce and Sakuraba had a match that lasted an hour and a half. In the early UFCs, it was the strikers who tired themselves out much faster than Gracie. You're going to have to provide a lot of empirical evidence to demonstrate that BJJ fighters have, generally speaking, less endurance than other fighters. Being overpowered, by the way, is also much more tiring than overpowering someone, regardless of how good your cardio is, unless you're pulling a pure rope-a-dope strategy (inadvisable in MMA).


            Yes. It is.


            Even a casual examination of this site would have resulted in you finding all sorts of responses to this tired old crap, including the abstract of two different police studies, one by the LAPD, the other by another PD, indicating that statistically, most fights go to ground. The second study in the group found that police, when engaged, most commonly found themselves under threat of being taken to the ground, and also explained that the majority of takedown attempts proved successful. The study then went on to explain that this was consistent with the most common reported patterns of assault against civilians. Finally, the overall conclusions included evidence that police officers skilled in ground-restraint and submission skills were less likely to inflict injuries on those they apprehended, less likely to be injured themselves, and less likely to be cited for excessive force. All of this indicates that BJJ is good for self-defense; it teaches you how to stay up if you want to stay up, how to escape if you end up getting taken down, how to end up on top if you do want to go to ground, and how to protect yourself if you find yourself on the bottom. BJJ teachers don't advocate going to ground in every situation: they just recognize that people will most often try to put you there, and will often succeed, so it's a good idea to know how to avoid takedowns and how to fight if taken down. If it's appropriate, they do suggest that taking someone else down is better than getting taken down yourself.


            No art is. You have provided ZERO evidence that TKD is, and no one has asserted anything about BJJ. The most effective means of surviving multiple opponents is flight. You can't flee if your opponent tackles you and you don't know how to stuff the takedown or escape once on the ground. BJJ teaches you that. TKD does not.


            The last thing you would want to do is stick around. Unfortunately, if you don't know how to grapple, you may not have a choice.


            Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. Nazism was the most popular political ideology in Germany circa 1932-1945. That didn't make it right (this is only an instructive example of the ridiculousness of an argument constructed in this way, not a comparison of TKD to Nazism). Also, TKD looks pretty, while BJJ arguably does not (it's one of those things you have to DO to appreciate). And finally, BJJ, Muay Thai, and MMA combined curriculum styles are all growing much faster than TKD is.


            Name dropping is not usually a good sign.


            This idea that grappling arts are best for guys of great size and girth makes BJ Penn, Sean Sherk, Matt Hughes, Royce Gracie, Rodrigo Gracie, Jeremy Horn, and especially Royler Gracie very sad. Royler weighs like 145, maybe, so clearly, grappling is not for him.

            This is actually a very common misconception about submission grappling: that the little guy is more likely to be dominated on the ground than on his feet. While it's true that a little guy put in a bad ground situation isn't going to be able to escape, it's also true that Royce was the smallest competitor in the first four UFCs and he won three of them. And Royler won the absolute division of the ADCC several times, if I'm not mistaken, despite being one of the smallest competitors (there may have been one guy smaller than him).


            I doubt his instructor has said that, and it's certainly not something I've ever heard MY instructor say.


            This, to make a pun, is a more defensible statement. Anything that doesn't include grappling in the curriculum will, on its own, not provide good self-defense skills in a world where fights usually end up with both participants on the ground.

            I'm sorry to get involved in this, but this is a public forum, and those comments about Hughes and Gracie were particularly misleading and rhetorically unethical. I don't appreciate that kind of stuff.
            Rather than give a ten page answer I will just cut to the chase.
            Most of what you say I agree with, to include some ignorant remarks on my part. So I concede the debate. I was re-acting to a perceived slight and felt I had to defend what I disagreed with. In retrospect, more so than doing that I have come into here as a total jack-ass. My sincere apoligies to all on this forum. There are two reasons why I ranted (and only making a couple of points), one is that I am on 4000 mg's of neruontinin. At 2400 mg's it screws with one's head. Not an excuse to be a jerk however. The other reason is highly personal and Don Gwinn, (who knows me) is the only one I would give the other reason to. But since I cannot PM him that is difficult.
            Suffice it to say that I know I have a good school. I know I teach authentic TKD (not only the sports aspects) and I know that TKD does have street applications that work very well. I am aware it does not address all ranges of fighting which is why I have begun to bring in other instructor's to teach what TKD leaves open to defeat.
            I know I will sound PW'd, but my wife was very upset. You can ask Don, she does not get upset very easily. I let her get me upset and hence I typed without much thought as I felt that what I do was being portrayed falsely.
            At this point there is really nothing I can do short of admitting I went off half-cocked and spewed out negative comments when they were out of line. For that I am sorry. If (after I get through the next few weeks of an ordeal) I decide to stay aboard here you will see for yourself how out of character those posts were for me. If for any reason I don't come back it has little to do with this site. I like it's concept, though I am seeing some BS myself when reading through posts. (Like TKD has NO self-defense applications) None the less, my points were either wrong or over stated. Very poor form. If I do come back I will show that I do have very good debating skills regardless of how much of an ass I was this time. Pilsung.
            Last edited by Bill Auvenshine; 5/23/2007 11:15am, .

            Comment


              #36
              I did Karate first (age 6) but not for very long before moving too far from the school to continue going. Then took TKD for a couple of years (age 7-9) before moving again.
              :new_all_c

              Comment


                #37
                "Same here. The boys are 10 now, going on 11. We just had a new one the old-fashioned way in March; his name is Sean. Life is crazy but life is good. It's too bad this is the reason we got a chance to talk.
                FWIW, if I'd known you were going to be offended, I'd have left your name out of it. I thought I was giving kudos."

                Likewise, Don, I'll keep this brief. (3 kids now and all boys! Congratulations!)

                Sorry about the wheelchair comment. Very bad form.

                Matt Hughes. I was only pointing out that he managed to beat a world champion BJJ practioner, one who understands the entire art and not simply ring applications. I know Matt cross-trains, but he is no martial artist. (which is why he does not act like one)
                Still, I said more than needed in that regard so any point I was trying to make was surely lost in the diatribe. (and as someone said, name dropping makes no point.)

                Punching to the head. You say you train with full contact punches to the head? That's great, (sincerely) but as most of my students are young it is a liability I should avoid. (If I were a boxing instructor I would allow it), as it is I leave that out of contact sparring. But you have awakened me to the point I may start allowing it among my high-belts and adults. It is surely something that needs addressing in my class. I'm sorry for "Skewing" (thanks for the correction Mr. English teacher...:) any remarks I made to you and fully concede you have made a very good point.

                30 minute lecture. Once again wrongfully applied. I can double anyone with no knowledge of self defense with a 30 minute presentation, but you certainly don't fit that mold so I was absolutely wrong to claim that with you and you were most certainly correct to call me on it. Point fully conceded.

                WTF TKD. That's an area I believe you do not understand. There are most certainly adaptions made to TKD so that it is also actual self-defense (though it only covers 2 ranges) For instance a sidekick to the knee instead of the abdomen. There are take downs though I believe they are not as effective as those I have seen in the kajikembo classes. I tell my students that. The other class is an additional $30 bucks a month so it is their choice if they wish to learm more and better take downs.

                "I'm not going to say anything disrespectful about you, and I'm not going to say much positive about WTF TKD. That's just the way it is."

                I appreciate the respect. Especially since I came in here flying off the handle. But I do get "respect" for simply being in a wheelchiar and to me that is nothing to be respected for. However, your perception of TKD (and it really makes no difference if it is WTF or ITF or any other org) IMO is flat out wrong. On that we must agree to disagree.

                "Serious question--are you so closely tied to TKD that I can't criticize it without criticizing you by default? Even when I go out of my way to state explicitly that I respect you and recommend you?"

                Yes I can. It was you bashing TKD in the same post you made (IMO) poor analogies in that made me (amd more so Pat) Still, if I would simply have waited, or at least slowed down I would have taken into account what sort of guy you are I would not (pat may have) felt so slighted. All I have to offer to that is a weak but sincere apology. I won't blame you if you do not accept it.

                "Maybe you're right and I don't really understand the "traditional martial arts" version of respect."

                TKD places much emphasis on being humble. But I shouldn't expect you to have known that. (This over-whelming sense og humbleness is why winners do not celebrate in the ring. I know that may be a difficult concept to grasp, especially with the UFC turning from pitting one martial art against another. In the early days of the UFC, (when fully rained martial artists competed) there was far less of the WWF jumping on the ropes and screaming out. However I suspect that both the way they now celebrate and add drama (personal conflicts) into the UFC is more for ratings than anything else. But that is why I believe the UFC falls short as now there is little to no humbleness or even respect for the other fighter. (even more so in the IFL) In any case if you don't understand that sort of respect I am hoping your BJJ instructor will bring you to that point. If he doesn't then he is clearly voiding a strong martial art tenet. Regardless this is a point not worth arguing. Sorry I even mentioned it.

                " Again . . . who disparaged you?
                Is it possible for me to dislike TKD and like you, or do I have to choose? You like TKD. You teach it and train in it. So what? You're probably a Beatles fan, too, and I'm not a bigot. Some of my best friends are Beatles fans. No, really."

                I HATE the beatles! Don't ever acuse me of that again or we will have to go at it! (j/k of course)
                The only disparage I got was what Pat and I thought was unfair toward us. I now recant and concede that you did not, (only one person did) but not from any re-reading, rather simply remembering what a decent guy you are. On the parts I felt slighted I should have realized that you are a 1st class character and had you meant to insult you would have done so much more clearly. Once again, all I can do is concede and offer a humble sincere apology.

                "I did NOT insult you. You are now the only one in TWO threads on this topic who has decided to interpret my words as derogatory towards you, your wife, or your students.
                Tae Kwon Do is what it is. "

                As already said, I now realize (and should have) that had you wished to insult me it would have been blistering clear. However, I adamantly disagree with you that "Tae Kwon Do" is what it is. I believe I am much better qualified to know what it is. But that is a fight we can fight at another time. I take no offense that you see it differently.

                " Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll bring $80 and take that old uniform off your hands, too.
                I'll certainly come to your tournament mentioned in the other thread. Class will depend on my schedule."

                Well, I have not taught class in the last 3 weeks and it is likely to be another month or so before I can be in a frame of mind to teach. (I'd like to give an explanation to you. but it's not something I want to tell a bunch of others, besides it does not concern them. If it concerns you shoot me an email on my website and I will tell you. After the treatment you received from me here I feel you deserve to know why I was so much out of character. Take the kajikembo class on Tuesday nights. I would like your assesment of it. However, if all you care to do is come to TKD class and look for holes then there is no point to it as your perception is what it is and visiting a class most likely will not change that. TKD is the most practiced art in the world. As such, most other arts poo-poo it unfairly. You have never heard me say that TKD is (though any art can be) lethal. I don't buy into that hype anymore than you do. However I do believe you are wrong in your assumption that TKD cannot be used on the street. (As Pat says it certainly is better for learning to fight than basketball, and she teaches both...;) but I believe it is a legitimate fighting style, (just not complete). Say what you want but I've had three ADHD kids who were able to get off the stupid drugs they were put on. (admittedly most didn't but they did not stick around either)
                So far as the uniform, ya can't have it. We are saving it for when Jeremy Dean get's bigger. You have zero use for a TKD uniform. I was only pointing out that it cost us plenty and we were not wishing you to stay on to have another client. Someday I will have use for it so I'll hang on to it. Come to the tourny, it's on me (though admission really isn't much.) I want you to come and watch the blackbelts so that you realize the tournys I support go hard. Knock-outs are not uncommon. Even with no KO's I'm certain that what you see them do is not "Tippy Tappy". And I want you to watch (especially the advanced) grapplers. Heck, perhaps your instructor will bring some competitors? But I also wanted you to see how far we have progressed as a school.

                "Where are you opening the new schools? Will they offer TKD, or only Kajukenbo? If you put me through this fiskfest for criticizing TKD and then it turns out you're not going to offer TKD at your new schools, I shall purse my lips and shake my fist at you thusly.
                You can't see it, but I'm doing it right now."

                At the moment I won't say where. I do not want my competition knowing about it in advance. Of course TKD will be the base art, however I am also considering backing other excellent martial artists and opening schools for them under "Auvenshine's School of Martial Arts." it's amazing how many fine instructors have no mind for business. But as of now, the ones I have in the works will most definetly be based in TKD. So far as other grappling arts I am speaking with a few different instructors and have not finalized just who and what art will be there to supplement my student's self-defense. But I feel it should be mandatory to cover other fighting ranges. (once again though only for those who want to pay the extra amount).
                And yes I can see (imagine) you with your lips pursed and your fists shaking! I've given you plenty of reason to do so.

                I know you are a first class guy and I should have realized that even after my wife dragged me to the PC. For that I sincerely apologize and hope I have not knocked myself farther down the ladder so far as what sort of person I am.
                If you would shoot me an email I can tell you something that will help you realize why I was such an ass. It does not excuse me from acting as one, but it might at least explain why I am not in my best form. (and why I am not teaching for a while) Email your phone# (or is it in the book?) and I'd love to explain my behavior to you voice to voice as I speak much better than I write.

                So I can only hope to partially undo my actions and hope that you stll know me as I was. I'm still that person, just not for awhile. Sorry Don, I should have known you were not dogging me, you were dogging TKD, (unfairly IMO) and that is all I should have addressed. I don't know how to present my apology in a way you deserve to have it by typing, which is why I would rather speak with you.

                Once again, just because I am gong through something right now was absolutely no reason for me to forget what kind of person you are.
                Last edited by Bill Auvenshine; 5/23/2007 12:42pm, .

                Comment


                  #38
                  tkd stole my MA virginity as well.

                  lookign back, it was pretty bad, I was unsatisfied, and its penis was very very small.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Bill Auvenshine
                    Why would you respect me if you thought I was so inept in my teaching? Cause I was a nice guy? I'm guessing it was the wheelchair. So please hold back on any insincere comments as to me being someone you "really" respect as you have given a reason not to respect me and none that would suggest respecting me. Also, you have it backwards so far as the spanish teacher knowing about russian poetry. You came to us (the spanish teacher) when what you were really wanting to learn about was russian poetry. You never came to enough classes nor did you stick it out long enough to realize anything about how and what I teach.

                    While I appreciate the glowing recomendation of yours, the truth is you weren't around long enough to judge ANY of my students, let alone my blackbelts. I have a 16 year old black belt that I can assure you, would be a handful for you to take on. I want to also point out that besides training with me a very short time that it has been several years before these postings. Which can explain why your perception of that time is skewered.
                    Also only being a good athelete in a fighting sport is not the same as with football. Did anyone kick you in the head in football? Yet you assume that you can take a punch to the head? What experience did you have at that time to make the claim that you could take a hard blow to the head? Yet you say my students (who were training in martial arts) could not. You confused sport TKD with the art. Another skwewered perception.
                    ALL martial arts have holes. Did you notice that Royce Gracie (a BJJ) got the snot beat out of him by a wrestler? I know Matt Hughes father. Matt set records with his wrestling but when he entered NHB contests he basically won most of his fights by simply picking up his opponent and then slammed them to the floor. Interesting that a guy who has a family named style of BBJ LOST to a farm boy who pummled Gracie and beat him early in the first round. So of course ALL stylized martial arts have their "holes". However I flatly dispute that you watching (not participating) a few UFC fights taught you ALL the holes in TKD. An absurd claim on its face. The only way to know all the "holes" is to train in the art long enough to know all the attacking points of TKD.

                    Nor are the things you are claiming.

                    This is pure ignorance. TKD is a very good art for self-defense. What you are forgettting is that no ONE system will do. In order to fight, one most be able to fight at three different distances. TKD deals with only striking. But even with that I could get you and a blackbelt of mine to go outside where space was unlimited and fight him. He'd have fun dodging you as you would wear yourself out before he would stay just outside your range and break your ribs or knock you out with the devastaing kicks he has mastered. You wouldn't even be able to touch him. THAT is the hole in BJJ, a lack of stamina ON YOUR FEET MOVING AROUND. BJJ is great if you can get your hands on someone, as in a ring. But the street is different. BJJ is a great art, I cross train in it as well as hapkido, Jeet Kun Do and Aikido. But BBJ is not nearly as effective as TKD is when faced with multiple attackers. Under that situation the LAST thing you would want to do is go to the ground or focus on the one who has hold of you. All arts have holes Don.

                    Ahh see? When I interviewed you, you did not mention wanting to learn to fight. It's absurd to even mention it as all martial arts are about fighting. YOU said your focus was on losing weght and getting back in shape. So we focused on that. What is a shame is that you never came to any friday classes when I taught my adults "practical self-defense". Not TKD, not any particular art, SELF-DEFENSE. Odd you just assumed all we taught was sport TKD. And assume was all you did, based on coming a couple of times a week. Now had you told me that you wanted focus on real self-defense I wopuld have suggested you come to those classes. I would (being's a AM a nice guy...aka: spanish teacher) have even suggested that because of your size, that you train under a grappling art. But you implied your focus was getting in shape and losing weight so that is what I focused on with you.

                    Yet another skewered perception. We never "push" anyone to test. All we did was offer to let you test at that time because you were close in hours of training time when the next testing was coming around. I distinctly told you that if you preferred, you could test then as I could see you would continue to work hard and the next testing would have been a few months later. So because of the way you worked so hard I offered to let you test. But "Pushed"? Absolutely false. In fact I often give kudos to students who decline a testing because they held themselves to a higher standard than my minimum requirements for testing. You also did not realize, (you assumed so much I'm surprised you didn't see it) but a promotion to yellow belt is no big deal at all. I often will allow someone to test for yellow belt when they are still a bit weak in their techniques if I knew they were going to be around to catch up. I never offer that to any other belt level. Yellow belt, that's it. It signifies you understand what is expected and was commited to continue to train as hard as you were. A yellow belt is not a blackbelt. And as I tell all my students when they become black belts, I say, "NOW you are ready to learn the art."

                    You had great front snap kicks and punches that could smash a face. What did you expect? That you would get to do that in a class enviroment? REALLY get to kick someone in the groin and then re-arrange their face with punches? You aren't being realistic. And once again, had you told us you were more interested in learning to fight then I would have insisted you come to the practical self-defense classes when I gave them. I could have TALKED to you for 30 minutes and doubled your ability to fight. I do it often when I teach women's self-defense in the public arena. Thou protest too much.

                    Once again, skewered perceptions. We were offering to let you test a bit early so as not to cause you to get double the hours needed before the next testing. As I said, I often do that with the yellow belt if I believe the student is trying hard and is committed to continue to train hard. In your case I was right about the former but wrong about the latter. So, lacking commitment I was wrong to offer to let you test. That happens. I don't have a perfect record when it comes to every individual I train, but I do have a very good record. Had you told me self-defense was front and center in your goal as a beginner you would have left the first class having learned real and effective techniques that DO work. But your stringing my wife and I along caused us to focus on what you yourself said was important to you. Had you stuck around another few months you would have learned effective techniques. For when someone wishes to learn the art of TKD they go slow at first, because I am teaching them an entire art, not simply how to fight. As it was, we only focused on the "getting in shape" aspect on you.
                    So, on one hand you compliment us, then come with a back-handed insult that you made from pure ignorance. That's hardly fair.
                    two years ago I was inducted into the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame. I really didn't see that as any big deal. But then this year when I attended the annual banquet in Richmond there was a guy there who received the "Living Legend" award. You may have heard of him. It was Bill "Superfoot" Wallace. As he accepted the award he announced that he had met a man the year before whose passion for the arts and dedication to giving his students the best he had to offer and was breaking down barriers in martial arts. He then asked me to come up to the podium. I hesitated, thinking that myself and 12 others at the table heard it wrong. I was commanded to get up there.
                    Once there, Mr. Wallace announced that because I was so true to the spirit of martial arts, he wanted me to have his award. I was speechless. he and I have become friends.
                    So, I can take your noob (to martial arts) assesment of me or I can take a world champion and legendary martial artists word for what I do. care to guess who I would believe most?

                    Exactly! It was only a yellow belt. A small step in advancement, not a major step. The advancvement was like going for kindergarden to 1st grade.

                    Had you opened up and told me what your true goals were I would have suggested that because of your girth, that you go train in a grappling art. You are much better suited for that kind of endurance than you are for the kind of endurance needed to fight standing up. I am glad that you did find an art that suits you.
                    However, TKD is the most popular martial art in the world. I wonder why, especially if it is no good for actual self-defense.
                    I hope you are being more sincere with your BJJ instructor than you were with me. By not being sincere you can't expect any instructor to fill your needs.
                    However I have long known that one art is not good enough. That is why we now teach Kajikembo out of my school. If you are not familiar with it, google it. There is no sport to it. It is only concerned with actual self-defense and not a lot of other peripheals that are part and parcel of leanring an entire system devoted to one or two aspects of fighting.
                    I also have guest instructors come in and give seminars. Ever heard of Steve Fristo? Steve Aldus? Brenden Huor? The first two are legends though they don't acknowledge the fact as they are humble. Both have also complimented me on teaching real martial arts as opposed to opening up a school that just pretends.
                    One last note on this post. You got in our class for a lousy $99. You may recall that we had to have you a uniform custom made to fit you. That uniform cost us $80. It is still lying in storage wondering where it's intended student went off to.
                    I would not be bothering correcting any of your mis-conceptions but my wife googled our name and this site came up. I would have let it go had you not called me out by name. You did so I am rebutting the short-sighted evaluation of who I am and what I do.
                    But please, don't give me respect that you feel I didn't earn.
                    I hope you are still training in BJJ as that would most certainly would fit your abilities far better than TKD. But if your instructor is telling you either that BJJ is all you need to know or that TKD is not a valid self-defense art then he is doing you a dis-service.
                    I trust that he is wise and does not mislead you in either perspective. If you ever care to, feel free to come by my studio on a tuesday at 6:30 and take a free kajikembo class on me. I'm sure you would see that not only would it be more suited for you than TKD, but you would also learn hown to fight in all the ranges of hand to hand (mano el mano) fighting. Not just grappling and not just striking but a combo of 5 arts that refined themselves down to only techniques that work on the street. I am also opening up two locations this year. They will not be TKD schools but rather schools that teach two or more arts.
                    I have to say Don, it is very disappointing to see any dispariging comments about me or my wife made from something years ago that you never really gave a fair shot.
                    But so long as people like Wallace think I've got it right it bridges any animosity over it.
                    BTW, check out my school's website sometime. (www.auvtkd.com)
                    Also, feel free to drop in just to say hello. Just because I so adamantly disagree with portions of what you said doesn't mean I don't think you are a swell guy. We often wondering how you, your wife and those lovely twins youy adopted are doing.


                    holy ownage out of nowhere :chewy:

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Do you know what ownage means?
                      *********************************************

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Bill, I just saw a little of that post, I swear I'll read it all tonight. In the meantime don't sweat it. I told you, I did not intend to offend you and I'm not going to get mad at you for clearing the air. I think we understand each other better now than we would have if you hadn't jumped in.
                        I should have just walked into the school one night and shot the breeze, but I was on that be-back bus. You know the one.
                        *********************************************

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I got involved with a McDojang because my friend went to it and his parents raved about it. It ended up being a terrible experience and got me locked in a contract for three years or till I got my black belt at the highest fee they could charge. Luckily I'm gonna finally be able to move on and be able to take judo soon.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Me too. It happened when I was in college. I quit after a few months. All I can remember is the "X" block. Oh well...

                            A few years later, I went to grad school in a small town in Oregon and discovered Judo. After getting my head squeezed in Kesa Gatame for 5 minutes, I was hooked.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I don't.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                I have to say that TKD is judged unfairly by most. It is not an art that teaches someone how to fight. It is an art that teaches self-defense. For years I have had students from other arts poo poo TKD without giving any clear examples of why. On this very thread, posters have poo poo'd it but offered nothing as to why they felt that way. (with one exception)
                                To say that if you want to learn self-defense one may as well play basketball is the type of bias that is common to TKD. Judo used to be a popular SPORT. But just because it has a sport side to it does not detract in any way it's real effectiveness in a real self defense scenario.
                                For someone who has never trained in TKD to claim they know "all the holes" is as absurd as saying basketball will teach you self-defense better than TKD. (not picking on you Don, I'm just actually doing as I should have done in the first place and debate the pertinent issues without the load of crap I spewed.)
                                I once set up a scenario where some guy at a demo, (he said he was a high belt in BJJ (but I had no way to verify that). He said he could easily defeat one of my blackbelts. I told him good. But I also said that depending on the circumstances he could be mistaken. This guy was overweight, (BTW, different arts fit different types of people, big heavy guys that can't do quick footwork would not have much use for TKD, however in a grappling art the size and strength that goes with it are a much better match) back to the scenario. I actually took the idea from someone I no longer associate with but none the less:

                                I explained to the guy that I would allow it under the condition that if he had my guy in any sort of hold that my guy could get hurt that I would concede. I told him his safety was guaranteed that he would not be injured.

                                I also explained that the area we were at was the boundaries of the "ring." That was about 50 X 50 feet in area. In also told him that their would be a time of 5 minutes.

                                He told me that he did not need so much area. However I told him on the street the size of the area could be any size and he agreed that was the case. Then I had my son step forward. My son could run backward faster than I could run forward. My son stood about 5 feet away. The guy lunged at him as if he was going to throw him to the ground. My son simply stepped sideways and tapped the guy on the shoulder with a roundhouse, (it could have easily been a hard kick to his head) and danced away again. This time the guy came at him flailing his fists, (something I think no serious BJJ practitioner would do uncontrolled) my son kept skipping around throwing an occasional light kick. This guy soon figured he was not going to catch my son with that much area. He then asked to do the same thing in a 10 X by 10 area. I said no. He had agreed to the space before and claimed he would easily take my son down. I told him the clock was ticking. He stopped trying to catch my son and simply stood still, wanting to bait my son to get closer. (good idea on his part). So he stopped trying to chase my son. That is when my son would taunt him by getting a little closer. This guy then tried to shoot in and grab my son by one leg. My son the simply jumped slightly and delivered a not so light roundhouse. The guy still hung on and I believed I had just lost. But my son (who is made of hardened steel, conditioning is a huge part of TKD) managed to extract his leg.
                                Now the other guy was really trying to grab my son. He was unable to get any closer than my son would allow. My son switched to hand techniques, something I thought would get him caught. But the 5 minutes went by and there was no take down. The several taps my son delivered could have done so with full force, but I had assured the other guy would not be injured.
                                I called it and this guy was irate. But what I also noticed was that this guy was sucking eggs to get his breath back. My son was not the least bit fatigued, his breathing was about the same as when he began.
                                I told the guy he failed to do what he said he could do. He accused me of cheating because my son moved around like a hummingbird. I told him that staying out of reach did not violate the rules we had set up.
                                He would not concede however. He simply said had my son (who was about 100 lbs lighter than the other guy) stood and fight he would easily have taken him. I told him I agreed. He then ask (after he got some air back) to do the same thing with the area being confined to 10 X 10. I said no. I conceded that in a more confined space he may very well have been able to tear my son's head off. He left telling me that TKD was for dancers. None the less I felt I had made my point. That being that every art has an advantage as well as dis-advantages.
                                So many people think that TKD is only sport. Especially those who are beginners in their chosen art. TKD is also poo poo'd because it places so much emphasis on being humble. Having to beat an attacker on the street is nothing to be proud of.
                                Now I will point out that competing in tourneys, even though they can be rough, in no way imitates street fighting. I do know of TKD blackbelts who got the snuff beat out of them by some guy who was drunk. I do not know of any BJJ practitioner who was beat by some drunk. Doesn't mean it can't happen. Then I don't know many in BJJ. The ones I know don't even go to bars.
                                I think any master of their own art would agree that all martial arts, (even boxing or wrestling) can be an effective self-defense system. ALL styles have holes. After allowing a few seminars at my school by my friend who is a kajukembpist, I felt that that art covered three ranges of fighting better than any other art I knew enough about to compare so I convinced him to teach his art out of my school. I really feel that no one MA is going to cover all the bases. That is why I am endeavoring to teach more than one art in all my schools that I will be opening in the next few years.
                                Some of the criticisms of TKD are justifiable. But much of it is because it is so widely practiced. It was stated here that TKD kept changing to accommodate anyone. I strongly disagree. If that were the case then everyone could excel at TKD. Not everyone does.
                                As I said. I know masters from many styles. Not a one of them would state as fact that TKD is not a self-defense art. Many begining students of other arts do so. I say that ANYONE who rises to the top of their art would easily realize that TKD does have some very good practicle applications.
                                Someone mentioned that they did not feel they could effectively punch the daylights out of someone after several classes in which the punches were practiced on a focus mitt. I told them that they absolutely can. The reply was that since he had not actually done it before that he was not at all certain that he could effectively punch someone in the face. (they also wondered about the when and why). I watched. This guy, (you know who you are so feel free to rebut what I say) had HARD controlled punches. There is NO WAY I would want him to punch me as the force and accuracy of his punches would make my mug even harder to look at. He disagreed which of course he was free to do. (this guy has no qualms about disagreeing with something if he is not convinced.) But I am the master. I can certainly tell by the way a student throws a punch if it would be effective or not. I am well qualified to know.
                                As I said. I am very fortunate to have friends that have mastered their art as well as other arts. When our schedules allow the time I spend with these guys educates me tremendously. As I am a wheelchair pilot most of my TKD is fruitless, (for me) so I am thirsty to absorb as many techniques and theories as I can. I believe that should be the goal of any martial artist, even those not in a wheelchair.
                                So I stand by my assertion that TKD has a real and viable self-defense aspect and is not merely a sport.
                                So now I will wait for what I am sure will be a deluge about how wrong I am. I welcome it.

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