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My TKD teacher officially can't grapple

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    My TKD teacher officially can't grapple

    My TKD instructor is 4th degree WTF, and he's actually pretty good at TKD (he was world champion for a year or two back in the 80's or 90's). Today he just confirmed for me that he does not know shit about grappling though.

    Let me go on a slight tangent and point out that I (5-month white belt at the time, 17 years old 185 lbs and weak as hell) was able to tap out the assistant instructor at my TKD school (3rd degree TKD, pretty badass at TKD, strong and tough guy) in regular grappling without a ton of difficulty. However, at the time I figured that the 4th degree who owns the school would be better since he has a friend who teaches japanese jujutsu. Obviously not.

    Today in class we worked on "grappling", which was mainly sweeps from half guard. The guy on top sits there, with the outside knee up, no less, doing a regular two handed choke on the guy on the bottom. Closing half guard was never mentioned, and I don't think I once saw the teacher do it.

    So the basic sweep that was done was a scissor sweep. From half guard. Yeah. The outside leg goes to the ground like a regular scissor sweep, and the inside leg pushes straight up while the guy turns the top person with his arms to make him fall to the side. Now, I knew this simply wouldn't work on anybody, so when my partner started trying it I just sat there. Teacher comes over and says to me, "you're sitting too high up". I didn't even mention (I should have) that at any point during this technique I could just take the mount since half-guard was never closed.

    Next sweep that was done was sort of the same thing, except the outside leg pushes on the knee (like some regular scissor sweep variations). I want to know how the hell one is supposed to get the foot up to the knee when they are sitting far up and tight in a good half-guard? It won't. And even if it will, again, the person on top passes easily. And even if they don't, the sweep is near impossible because you don't have enough lifting power with the inside leg.

    The last one is my favorite. It had me trying to contain laughter while he was explaining it. it was a regular armbar (juji-gatame) from the bottom of half-guard. First, the person on top of half guard has to have the inside knee up for it to even work. The guy on bottom traps an arm and throws the outside leg over the front of the face, almost like an armbar setup, except the other leg is still trapped inside half-guard. Meaning it basically gives the person on top a beautiful pass. The way he wanted us to do it was to sit up, and the person on top miraculously falls down, then we place the leg that was inside his legs into regular armbar position and finish. Perfectly effective, right? If the guy on top is bubba the grappling dummy (even that is probably not dumb enough for this to work on).

    So my friend (who wrestles a bit) and I start trying the moves with a little more resistance, and I show him how he ought to be putting weight on me and trying to flatten me out more on top, negating all this crappling. Teacher comes over and says, "guys, I know that you're trying to do your own thing and wrestle, but let's work this technique". I have too much respect for the guy's TKD to blatantly tell him "this technique is bullshit" though.

    Before today I had some doubts about his grappling ability, but he generally did decent scissor sweeps and mount escapes otherwise, although his guard armbar is pretty terrible (he throws the leg over the head and leaves the other leg dangling, basically giving the top guy the pass). But now it is confirmed, he is a crappler of the 1st degree. Shame. But then I don't train with this guy for his grappling.

    #2
    Why DO you train with him again?

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      #3
      I just started teaching BJJ classes in King of Prussia last night.....

      Im inspired by your instructor- Im going to add Muay Thai classes as well (I've had 4 classes- I KNOW what Im talking about)

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        #4
        Originally posted by Strong Machine
        Why DO you train with him again?
        As I said, he's a beast at TKD. He'll do flying scissor takedowns during sparring sessions just to see the looks on our faces. He was a legit world champion many years ago and he doesn't compete anymore just because he keeps injuring himself one way or another.

        I drive 30 minutes to Dedham for all my BJJ needs.

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          #5
          What's a flying scissor takedown?

          and what sort of sparring?

          just curious

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            #6
            Hmmm, there is a scissor sweep from half-guard. It is just absolutely nothing like what you just described.
            "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't fuck with me!"

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              #7
              Why you would expect your TKD teacher to be able to grapple is something of a mystery to me.

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                #8
                Originally posted by NorthWest
                Why you would expect your TKD teacher to be able to grapple is something of a mystery to me.
                What he said.

                TKD grapplers... oh the humanity.
                A lie gets half-way around the world before the truth has time to get it's pants on. - Winston Churchhill

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                  #9
                  I'd like to point out that since starting to grapple my TKD game has gone seriously down hill.

                  TKD

                  "Would you like to smell my bucket?"

                  THIS IS NOT AN EXIT


                  "Ladies and gentlemen, the pilot has instructed everyone to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up." Henry Rollins

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                    #10
                    I wouldn't expect to learn grappling from a TKD black belt any more than I would expect to learn a tornado kick from a BJJ black belt.

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                      #11
                      Yeah, bro.

                      What are his grappling credentials?

                      He's got a friend who does JJJ?

                      Hell, I got friends who do BJJ/JJJ/Judo/Yoodo. I've even sat in on private lessons with John Rallo and trained with Eugene Kim in Yoodo.

                      Outside of Ssireum (4th degree fluffy bunny ears), I have no grappling credentials whatsoever.

                      If your teacher wants to say, "Hey, this is a cool trick that my JJJ friend showed me", that's one thing.

                      Teaching grappling?!?

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Beaton Yu
                        I wouldn't expect to learn grappling from a TKD black belt any more than I would expect to learn a tornado kick from a BJJ black belt.

                        Johnny S should be able to accomadate you- hes a BJJ black belt (even though hes also a TKD black belt)

                        :icon_comp

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                          #13
                          I'll bet he can sidekick you in the ribs and pop you in the head pretty damn hard. Asking him to be an expert in every phase of combat is asking a bit much. He's a TKD instructor - nothing more, nothing less.

                          I don't ask my BJJ instructor to be a qualified combat shooter, or able to call in accurate artillery strikes, nor would I expect him to be an expert in Muay Thai.

                          That being said - I wouldn't want my History professor doing any neural surgery.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Beaton Yu
                            I wouldn't expect to learn grappling from a TKD black belt any more than I would expect to learn a tornado kick from a BJJ black belt.
                            Actually, Carlos Gracie Jr. has a better wheel kick (spinning hook kick) than 65-70% of TKD people I've seen (black belt or otherwise). I don't know if that says more about his ability or more about the lack of ability of a lot of TKD people.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              you shouldnt expect to learn grappling from a tkd guy, but why the fudge would he try and teach it?

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