Anti Grappling

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

Yay, you stopped a bjj guy from taking you down.

Im sure that invalidates every form of grappling in existence, ranging from kungfu, judo, jutjitsu, wrestling, to sambo.

Hurrah.

Because we all know that brazilian jiujitsu practitionners are the end all be all when it comes to stand up grappling (takedowns)...

Gracie jiujitsu for the WIN! because a chunner said so.

Your starting to make less and less sense.

[MartialArtN00b]

Obviously because then you would know how ridiculous his argument is and this thread would have stopped along time ago.

he thinks that grapplers carry an aura of invincibility.

But what is a grappler?

It could be a judoka (with all its variations), a bjjer (with all its variations), a wrestler (with all its variations), etc...

Do you know how many people that is in the world?

Chunners go hiding behind their lineage, yet they paint every grappler with the same stroke.

That he thinks wing chun works fine against grappling because it seems to work versus one bjjer STAND UP wise shows how much he knows about the subject. I.E very little.

When it comes to standup sparring, id wager any belt in judo over the bjjer.

And that he thinks a bjjer practicing wingchun means hes learning how to counter bjj at the same time with the anti-grapple is quite dumb.

[doktorhook]

Who are you trying to convince? No non-WCer has failed to see your transparent little agenda here or the fact that you refuse to listen to folks who know more than you about all this.

What is my agenda wasabe? I haven't failed to listen to the false accusations the wing chun practitioners feel they are invicible ( which we do not ), I haven't failed to listen to how much grappling dominates everything ( which it does not), Nor have i failed to listen to how you've tried put words in my mouth & others here who practice wing chun ( which you have). So tell me what is my agenda?


[quote} So I don't know who this little 'wounded' act is for but you might as well save your fingers, champ.[/quote]

I didn't realize I was acting wounded?! If you 're refering to the fact that i said you try to misrepresent what I have said, well that's the truth but it in no way hurts me. You give yourself to much credit wasabe.

[wakinonioi]

Keep blabbing away, Zombie. It's all too obvious whether you want to admit it or not.

[doktorhook]

Obviously because then you would know how ridiculous his argument is and this thread would have stopped along time ago.

If it's ridiculous why do you persist in the arguement?

he thinks that grapplers carry an aura of invincibility.

The only ones here who seem to think that are the grapplers!

But what is a grappler?

It could be a judoka (with all its variations), a bjjer (with all its variations), a wrestler (with all its variations), etc...

Do you know how many people that is in the world?

You're right, grapplers come in a wide variety of styles. & there are quite a few in the world, but that begs to question how many strikers there are as well. I would dare say that there are more strikers than grapplers but this is unproven & i really don't know.

Chunners go hiding behind their lineage, yet they paint every grappler with the same stroke.

This is true some of the time, but I have yet to see anyone here do that so your reasoning is unfounded on this site.

That he thinks wing chun works fine against grappling because it seems to work versus one bjjer STAND UP wise shows how much he knows about the subject. I.E very little.

Heres the catch though, if it worked against one BJJ guy it can work on others.

And that he thinks a bjjer practicing wingchun means hes learning how to counter bjj at the same time with the anti-grapple is quite dumb.

What makes you assume this? if he's skilled in Bjj ( neither you nor I know how skilled he is) then you stand on very shaky ground by saying something this stupid.

[doktorhook]

Keep blabbing away, Zombie. It's all too obvious whether you want to admit it or not.

Back up your statement wasabe. WHAT IS MY AGENDA?

[MartialArtN00b]

Take the last word, this is my last post on this thread. You did not understand my last post anyways, so its useless. Bjj is a ground oriented system, its strenght is not about taking a person to the ground ( wrestlers or judokas are more proficient for that), but what to do when youre on the ground.

And you misunderstand my last sentence. Just because youre practicing wingchun with a former bjj practitionner doesnt mean youre learning how to counter grappling which is what youre implying.

Bye.

[todekenkyokai]

Yes ,
that was the worst take down attempt I have ever seen , like a shoot for the ankle combined with somekind of self imposed face plant.Though this is BS.....
I think that wing chun does have a place in the MMA arena , Ithink that it is excellent from the ground with your opponent in guard, however thats where the Love ends because The rest of it is BS....not good versus a good shoot and not good vs the armbar ....

Wing Chun guys should stick to what they are good at and be proud of it !
John

[RoninPimp]

Yes ,
that was the worst take down attempt I have ever seen , like a shoot for the ankle combined with somekind of self imposed face plant.Though this is BS.....
I think that wing chun does have a place in the MMA arena , Ithink that it is excellent from the ground with your opponent in guard, however thats where the Love ends because The rest of it is BS....not good versus a good shoot and not good vs the armbar ....

Wing Chun guys should stick to what they are good at and be proud of it !
John

-Even that is BS. The MMA guys with good offensive fighting guards punch the best from their backs. That's simply because they train "alive" there. Standing pigeon toed with half of a self applied wrist lock on themselves slapping a wooden totem pole doesn't help you do shit.

[Tom Kagan]

Tom,

Do I take it personal after someone calls me a pussy or tells me to F off? Mabye, Maybe not. Really, when it's done behind the safe zone of a keyboard, does it really matter? It's just words. Even when face to face, nothing that really hurts me. You're the one TRYING to make it personal. So, I don't agree with your views. Ok, call me names. Fine. You are the one that stated why you love coming here - to get a rise out of people like me. Well, fine, goo dluck with that.

Vaneer, Vaneer. twist twist. Same as before. Let it go. I don't hold this site in any regard, high or low. It's simply a medium to express people's vews regarding MA's. That's it. Nothing positive or negative about it. NOTHING PERSONAL. Haha, Is this your attempt at trying to turn everyone against me and expose me for a member of the Bullsido website hater club? :)
Maybe you hold it in a very high regard? ok, cool. I like coming here, but can also live without it... What does it really matter?

I said I show everyone here respect untill they show reason for me to do otherwiseotherwise. I'm pretty sure you dont' deserve it anymore. Call me names. Twist my words. Mission accomplished. You win. Feel better?

I anwsered your questions every single time, every single post. You don't like the answer? stop asking. But I didn't avoid anything.

How's this, let's just let it go, I think we've wasted enough of everyone's time, and for that I appologize to them. If you have anything else you'd like to say to me about this obviously 'personal matter', PM me.

Jonathan (not Jon)

There are plenty of "medium to express people's views regarding MA's" But you picked this one - a rip roaring, thoroughly obnoxious, locker room "snap fest" of a place. It is not very reassuring - no hugs, no tea, no 'attaboy' mutual butt-scratching, and a rather low signal to noise ratio. But for those who prefer their MA through the dark lens - the murky, creepy, sink or swim one - this place is bliss. If you want the rose colored lens, there are other places. They are easy to find.

If you are being a pussy, don't you want someone to tell you? Do you really want to remain unaware? I pointed out a moronic argument. You started whining about "respect" and making this "personal" - not because I was necessarily wrong in my assessment, but because I used words like "moronic." That's the point where I said you were being a pussy. If you weren't being a pussy, that comment wouldn't have bothered you - you would have probably laughed to yourself and moved on. Or, if you were being a pussy and you realized how silly it was to be one, it wouldn't have bothered you - and you would have laughed *at* yourself and moved on. But it did bother you, didn't it? You bring it up again and again, maybe with some vain hope I realize just how mean I was for calling you that and I take it back with a honey dripped apology to sooth your fragile ego. What does that say about you?

Do you know what quite a few people do if they have no respect at all for your words? They don't address you at all. They let you live in your bubble allowing to continue to believe that pile of shit you stepped in doesn't smell so you carry it right back into your house.

(Ya know, if you actually knew more about the culture where the alleged "martial etiquette" you seek was created, you would realize the way to *really* insult someone is to become EXTRA polite, extra complimentary, and with an extra dollop of fawning over your stupendous brilliance. They'd blow the proverbial smoke up your ass.)


And you didn't answer my questions. You spouted "maybe this, maybe that, what holes do *you* see?" That not answer, that's a perfect example of avoiding an answer.

You say I'm avoiding you. Well FOR THE THIRD TIME: What specifically do you want me to comment on that you think I've ignored?


Tom (Thomas, Tommy, Tom Tom, Uncle Tom, fucktard, shithead, juvenile idiot, or however else you want to address me).

[velomaster]

"People should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."

[JPinAZ]

Obviously because then you would know how ridiculous his argument is and this thread would have stopped along time ago.

he thinks that grapplers carry an aura of invincibility.

But what is a grappler?

It could be a judoka (with all its variations), a bjjer (with all its variations), a wrestler (with all its variations), etc...

Do you know how many people that is in the world?

Chunners go hiding behind their lineage, yet they paint every grappler with the same stroke.

That he thinks wing chun works fine against grappling because it seems to work versus one bjjer STAND UP wise shows how much he knows about the subject. I.E very little.

When it comes to standup sparring, id wager any belt in judo over the bjjer.

And that he thinks a bjjer practicing wingchun means hes learning how to counter bjj at the same time with the anti-grapple is quite dumb.

Look, I don't want to spend much more energy arguing this with you but my point was I'M TRYING TO DISCUSS FROM EXPERIENCE. Sure, I can stop a VERY GOOD BJJ guy from taking me down at a comfortable percentage. That doesn't mean I can stop them all, or even him every time. But it seems you've ignored ALL my other points regarding this as well.

Now, let me ask you something: are you thinking every fight starts standing up or on the ground? Anti-grappling (whatever you care for me to call it) as I see it is stopping a grappler from grappling with me! So, if I can stop a BJJ guy from taking me down, his ground game now is of little value to him right? Ok, then no grappling. No twisting me in a pretzel on hot, rough pavement. I'll take that.
I see you tag as BJJ... how's your stand up game?
Also, how do you plan to take someone to the ground so you can 'do your stuff' if they stop you cold? Are you hoping they just fall on the ground?
See my point yet?

An NO, I do not think that becaus eI can stop one VERY GOOD bjj guy from taking me down that I'm invincible to ANY style of fighting. But it's a step in the right direction for me to prove to myself that what I am learning works in more than just THEORY.


lastely: you wrote "he thinks that grapplers carry an aura of invincibility." WRONG WRONG WRONG. Go back and read my posts. This type of 'arugment' is really getting old. I said that I get that feeling from a lot of the people that have a grappling/wrestling tag. that from the way they speak (yourself included) that THEY give the impression that BJJ is invincible and that if I don't train it, I can't defeat it.

My advice: read the psts a little more thuroughly before you go putting words in my mouth :)

JP

[JPinAZ]

You're right, grapplers come in a wide variety of styles. & there are quite a few in the world, but that begs to question how many strikers there are as well. I would dare say that there are more strikers than grapplers but this is unproven & i really don't know.

I agree with you.

The way I see it, grappling can be very effective (regardless of the 'style'). But, they have to be able to get that range/stage of fighting first. So that means getting past long range striking, short range striking, trapping and finally, then get past someone that is trained to stop them from getting to the grappling range/stage (call it, oh, anti-grappling I guess just to add some more sticks to the fire - haha)

Sure, and when they get there, they are going to be pretty good - as long as the person they are trying to grapple again doesn't know how to deal with them (ot, their skill is higher)
but the trick in my view is GETTING to the grappling stage against someone skilled at stopping them from doing so.
What then?

[JPinAZ]

Take the last word, this is my last post on this thread. You did not understand my last post anyways, so its useless. Bjj is a ground oriented system, its strenght is not about taking a person to the ground ( wrestlers or judokas are more proficient for that), but what to do when youre on the ground.

And you misunderstand my last sentence. Just because youre practicing wingchun with a former bjj practitionner doesnt mean youre learning how to counter grappling which is what youre implying.

Bye.

gotta grapple me or take me down to work the bjj.....

oh, and bye :)

[JPinAZ]

There are plenty of "medium to express people's views regarding MA's" But you picked this one - a rip roaring, thoroughly obnoxious, locker room "snap fest" of a place. It is not very reassuring - no hugs, no tea, no 'attaboy' mutual butt-scratching, and a rather low signal to noise ratio. But for those who prefer their MA through the dark lens - the murky, creepy, sink or swim one - this place is bliss. If you want the rose colored lens, there are other places. They are easy to find.

If you are being a pussy, don't you want someone to tell you? Do you really want to remain unaware? I pointed out a moronic argument. You started whining about "respect" and making this "personal" - not because I was necessarily wrong in my assessment, but because I used words like "moronic." That's the point where I said you were being a pussy. If you weren't being a pussy, that comment wouldn't have bothered you - you would have probably laughed to yourself and moved on. Or, if you were being a pussy and you realized how silly it was to be one, it wouldn't have bothered you - and you would have laughed *at* yourself and moved on. But it did bother you, didn't it? You bring it up again and again, maybe with some vain hope I realize just how mean I was for calling you that and I take it back with a honey dripped apology to sooth your fragile ego. What does that say about you?

Do you know what quite a few people do if they have no respect at all for your words? They don't address you at all. They let you live in your bubble allowing to continue to believe that pile of shit you stepped in doesn't smell so you carry it right back into your house.

(Ya know, if you actually knew more about the culture where the alleged "martial etiquette" you seek was created, you would realize the way to *really* insult someone is to become EXTRA polite, extra complimentary, and with an extra dollop of fawning over your stupendous brilliance. They'd blow the proverbial smoke up your ass.)

And you didn't answer my questions. You spouted "maybe this, maybe that, what holes do *you* see?" That not answer, that's a perfect example of avoiding an answer.

You say I'm avoiding you. Well FOR THE THIRD TIME: What specifically do you want me to comment on that you think I've ignored?
Tom (Thomas, Tommy, Tom Tom, Uncle Tom, fucktard, shithead, juvenile idiot, or however else you want to address me).

Tom,

Sorry, but that's just the same blah blah blah, trying to twist and redirect everything I say and everything you do so I look bad and you look great. You can interpret or misinterpret my words however you chose, I can't stop that. Ok, again, how's this: you win. Happy? see, all better :)
Just let it go. You have something more to say regarding this matter or any other, PM me. I'm tired of wasting everyone's time. I'm done with this matter.

JP