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    ATA tkd, teh suck?

    Carry over from the thread about weak excuses against boxing.

    POSTED by Shu2jack
    I have a theory.....

    Even if the majority of TKDists/Karate people/what ever train to fight in a ring, they would still not get any respect. Even if it was non-stop, full contact, punches to the head allowed competition, and forms/one-steps were taught no respect would be given. We would told that we were not training in Karate/TKD, but training like a kick boxer or something.

    Karate/TKD DOES mean sub standard martial to a large number of people. If you suck it is because of your art. If you kick ass it will because you copied off the training methods of styles that work/your school isn't the majority, so doesn't really fit/THOSE AREN'T KARATE PUNCHES!!! or TKD DOESN'T PUNCH!!!

    So yeah.....get used to it Hannibal.
    I asked him to verify that he does ATA tkd, and he said yes. He asked what of it. I said

    Lets forget the numerous posts on why TKD sucks. Lets talk about the fact that you're in ATA tkd.
    He asked to elaborate and so in order not to derail the thread I have made a new post.

    My argument is this: TKD, though like everything doesn't 100% suck, has a high percentage of mcdojism/bullshido. The ATA organization has also been discussed as a mcdojo/bullshido organization. End argument.

    I think this subject has been covered alot but i'd rather post a new thread than derail someone elses.

    #2
    Okay, but what is your point. Right now you are just stating an opinion.

    You need to ask some specific questions or it will end up in trollshido.

    Comment


      #3
      I really could care less if it gets moved to trollshido. I'm waiting for Shu2jack to come in with a response (hopefully he sees the thread). I really dont know how to word this thread responding to his question without making it seem like a troll job - so if he posts it'll put context to it. If not then away it goes.

      Comment


        #4
        taekwonpenis.

        Thread over.
        "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Garbanzo Bean
          taekwonpenis.

          Thread over.

          you win.

          Threads over lets go home.

          Comment


            #6
            Carry over from the thread about weak excuses against boxing.

            POSTED by Shu2jack

            Quote:
            I have a theory.....

            Even if the majority of TKDists/Karate people/what ever train to fight in a ring, they would still not get any respect. Even if it was non-stop, full contact, punches to the head allowed competition, and forms/one-steps were taught no respect would be given. We would told that we were not training in Karate/TKD, but training like a kick boxer or something.

            Karate/TKD DOES mean sub standard martial to a large number of people. If you suck it is because of your art. If you kick ass it will because you copied off the training methods of styles that work/your school isn't the majority, so doesn't really fit/THOSE AREN'T KARATE PUNCHES!!! or TKD DOESN'T PUNCH!!!

            So yeah.....get used to it Hannibal.



            I asked him to verify that he does ATA tkd, and he said yes. He asked what of it. I said


            Quote:
            Lets forget the numerous posts on why TKD sucks. Lets talk about the fact that you're in ATA tkd.



            He asked to elaborate and so in order not to derail the thread I have made a new post.

            My argument is this: TKD, though like everything doesn't 100% suck, has a high percentage of mcdojism/bullshido. The ATA organization has also been discussed as a mcdojo/bullshido organization. End argument.

            I think this subject has been covered alot but i'd rather post a new thread than derail someone elses.
            I am not really sure what is being asked or what you exect from me in terms of a response.

            I agree that "McDojoism" runs rampant in TKD and the ATA is no exception. I think the ATA is more susceptable to "McDojoism" because of how they set their system up and I do believe there are instructors who abuse it...though I am not going to give any names.

            In itself, I do not think the ATA is a bullshit organization. I do like how they are organized. While I do not totally agree with their philosophy in regards to what they are mainly interested in teaching (and most people here totally disagree with it), I understand why they have it and I can apprciate it.

            As you said, not 100% of something sucks. I am not saying the place where I train is "the shit", but I am generally happy with what I receive in terms of training at the ATA school I attend. The class room sparring is continueous (we don't stop for points...or even call them) with light-moderate contact depending on who you are sparring, I like the mental attitude used for the adult black belts by the head instructor, we spend as much time with punching (not the chambered kind) as we do kicking, and everyone there seems to keep a realisitic view of what they are learning.

            Comment


              #7
              How often do you go moderate - hard (not full mind you) contact? What qualifications do your instructors carry (Very important in my opinion)?

              Statements should be based off experience. We have an ATA tkd school right in my little town and thats where my viewpoints come from. Do you feel that your school is an exception to the "norm" of ata tkd? Or do you feel that ata tkd just gets a bum rep?

              This thread really is to discuss ATA tkd, and that subject related to Shu2jack.

              Shu2jack
              Ok, why don't you start us off? I am more than happy to answer questions.
              Mostly related to this. Again, I am just trying not to derail the other thread by posting a new one here
              Last edited by JKing; 2/13/2006 12:55am, .

              Comment


                #8
                How often do you go moderate - hard (not full mind you) contact?
                Every class. Unless there is no one around my size, which isn't often.

                Our rule is that we can hit as hard as we want as long as we are not purposely trying to hurt each other, we are under control, and respect for your partner/others on the floor is being maintained.



                What qualifications do your instructors carry (Very important in my opinion)?
                If you are talking about non-ATA qualifications, then I don't know. He doesn't teach non-ATA material so I don't see the problem.

                What are you looking for in terms of qualifications? In terms of ATA qualifications, he has been in the art for over 25 years, holds many different positions in the organization, etc. As far as teaching ATA TKD, he is more than qualified.

                Statements should be based off experience. We have an ATA tkd school right in my little town and thats where my viewpoints come from. Do you feel that your school is an exception to the "norm" of ata tkd? Or do you feel that ata tkd just gets a bum rep?
                I do feel the place I train at, and the place I teach at (I run a small ATA club) is in the top percentile in terms of ATA schools and standards. No promising of black belts (took me 5 years to earn mine), no required long contracts, no huge fees (when I started it was $45/mo. and the price hasn't risen that much), my instructor has a full time job and teaches TKD as a "hobby", what I have been taught in terms of technique is sound, etc.

                I feel the ATA receives more bad rep than what it deserves, but it still deserves it's share. I think there are many good schools and instructors out there, but I also think there is a lot of bullshit in the ATA.

                Would I recommend the ATA to some one? My answer would be the same as if some one asked me about a boxing gym. Check out the instructor, what they teach, how they teach, and what you want to learn. If I thought the ATA was complete and utter BS, I wouldn't be there any more.

                Comment


                  #9
                  So your teacher has no qualifications? I mean other than that he's done it for xyz amount of time?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Double post:

                    Heres actually a better question - do you feel you are recieving awesome ATA TKD training, or awesome fight training?

                    now by the word fight that means self defense/ring

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think that this whole full-contact sparring thing needs a little clarification, because it seems that every TKDer that comes on here is doing "full-contact sparring" to some degree.

                      -Just because you're allowed to hit as hard as you want, don't make it full-contact sparring. Full-contact thumb-wars isn't on the same level as full-contact TKD isn't on the same level as full-contact boxing isn't on the same level as full-contact MT.

                      -Getting hit by someone in TKD is very different from getting hit by someone in MT. I'm finding this out the hard way. By the way that "full-contact sparring" is getting thrown around by TKDers on Bullshido you'd think they're almost the same thing.

                      Big news: it's not even in the same league. You can use a few TKD kicks and give each other a few bruises, and call that full-contact, but it's not even in the same ballpark as getting punched in the face and kneed in the ribs repeatedly. The level of training and the weapons available to you DRASTICALLY affect your experience of "full-contact".

                      In an extreme example, if an art was ever invented where the only legal weapon to use in sparring was a punch to the arm, and you could punch as hard as you possibly wanted, you could still say you trained full-contact, continuously. But it doesn't mean shit, because the tools you're using wouldn't cut warm butter.
                      Rad ki was made up by adolescents. I do not know who created trad ki but it was not made by adolescents. your an ass dude, Im not being a little bitch you are, your past the level of a bitch. Your beyond Bitch! If im easting my time with ki and psi, then your wasting time to prove frauds, and all shit like that! -theoutsider

                      Kick boxing is ok, but don't expect do beat a man like Rickson Gracie with that. You need a real martial art. You need Xing Yi Quan. -Emptyflower

                      The splits, how ever, have a few martial uses. Doing the splits for me, can put my fists in testical strike range.

                      dont ignore the Art for the Martial or else your just kick boxing

                      Yes i am serious, there are kicks that can block punches. we have them in Moo duk kwan.
                      I want to learn how to use them in case my arm gets broken in a fight.
                      what would you have me do? if my arm gets broke, not block punches? -sempi-stone

                      Comment


                        #12
                        So your teacher has no qualifications? I mean other than that he's done it for xyz amount of time?
                        Again, what are you looking for/at?

                        He has trained in, and completed, ATA instructor training, attended camps/certifications on our material and any new material introduced into the ATA, CPR/First aid certified, etc. Many programs the ATA runs to train their instructors/school owners my instructor has been through.

                        Has he trained in another style? Not to my knowlegde, no. Is he a certified physical trainer? No.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Qualifications usually mean a competition/fight record, lineage, or a general record of bad-ass-ness that accompanies a good teacher. Paying $400 for a certification course in Elementary school Taekwondo Instruction doesn't usually qualify.

                          And I'm still waiting for a response on the full-contact issue.
                          Rad ki was made up by adolescents. I do not know who created trad ki but it was not made by adolescents. your an ass dude, Im not being a little bitch you are, your past the level of a bitch. Your beyond Bitch! If im easting my time with ki and psi, then your wasting time to prove frauds, and all shit like that! -theoutsider

                          Kick boxing is ok, but don't expect do beat a man like Rickson Gracie with that. You need a real martial art. You need Xing Yi Quan. -Emptyflower

                          The splits, how ever, have a few martial uses. Doing the splits for me, can put my fists in testical strike range.

                          dont ignore the Art for the Martial or else your just kick boxing

                          Yes i am serious, there are kicks that can block punches. we have them in Moo duk kwan.
                          I want to learn how to use them in case my arm gets broken in a fight.
                          what would you have me do? if my arm gets broke, not block punches? -sempi-stone

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The biggest source of BS in ATA are the ways that instructors are given certificates to teach groundfighting (ATA BJJ), krav maga, knife defense and other stuff after attending a two-day weekend course. Because of this your certificates don't mean much do me. Has any ATA instructor you know of tested himself in competition outside ATA?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              There's only one thing worst than WTF TKD and that is ATA TKD. You guys give out belts like cupcakes at a birthday party.

                              I have never EVER seen an ATA person worth their weight. I mean I know of a few VERY good WTF TKD fighters and a few good chunners and fuck, even a good Aikidoka. But absolutely ZERO ATA fags can cut it. End of story. Time to make a sandwich.

                              Comment

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