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Kata is not Bullshido

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    Kata is not Bullshido

    Kata is not bullshido. In my style and the traditonal japanese martial arts. Kata is performed by two people. One person is the receiver of the technique. This means you actually touch the person. From the kata you learn how to perform the move. Then later you demonstrate how to perform the technique doing randori, kumite, sparring or whatever you want to call it. I think judo has kata like this but I'm not sure.
    I can't speak for the Okinawan guys. I don't know about their katas. But I think it shouldn't be dwelt on too long. If you focus too much on it it's just a filler for classes. That's why it should be practiced more at home then in the class.
    カンフー

    #2
    heheh oh you Aikido people make me laugh. Next youll be telling me that you have live training and that your style works on the street....hehehe

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      #3
      That's Bunkai, dumbass.

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        #4
        Ok, Im going to fall for your trap while I wait for this server to install.

        For the love of all that is holy use the search function.

        Now to sum up basically the points that have been made 1.8 million times:

        Like most things in life kata is not evil, it's how it's used which creates the problem. Kata as a store of techniques, or as a one or two man drill, is not the problem. The problem arises when people believe that Kata is a replacement for sparring, or that they're are hidden techniques in kata, that will help with situations thet aren't taught in class.

        I personally believe time devoted to kata is better spent learning to fight. And just in case you don't know kata does not teach you to fight.

        I have alot of respect for Tomiki Aikido guys, they have the sack to compete.
        Last edited by ojgsxr6; 12/29/2005 1:55pm, .

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          #5
          Originally posted by Mr. Jones
          Kata is not bullshido. In my style and the traditonal japanese martial arts. Kata is performed by two people. One person is the receiver of the technique. This means you actually touch the person. From the kata you learn how to perform the move. Then later you demonstrate how to perform the technique doing randori, kumite, sparring or whatever you want to call it. I think judo has kata like this but I'm not sure.
          I can't speak for the Okinawan guys. I don't know about their katas. But I think it shouldn't be dwelt on too long. If you focus too much on it it's just a filler for classes. That's why it should be practiced more at home then in the class.
          Judo has kata, but they're not the focus of a workout. Uchikomi and randori is the focus. I've taken aikido before, and there is 0 randori and tons of compliant partners. Not to knock it for what it is, a -do, but if you're looking for a true martial art, aikido would NOT be where I'd look.
          --
          L.

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            #6
            1. Bud Shi Dust explain yourself.

            2. Someone knows about Shodokan. Asia is the only one who I saw acknowedledge it. I guess I'm getting lazy. Before I started posting I was looking at posts that I found through the search function for about an hour or two. I almost posted the Aikido vs. Karate video. Luckily I used the search function.

            3. Kata doesn't teach you how to fight it teaches you the techniuqes. Well that's what I think it is. I think sparring is a good thing. It tells you where you are at. If I was Aikkikai I bet I would be saying the opposite.
            カンフー

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              #7
              Tomiki has randori and kuzushi too. Another style has randori I think but I'm not sure.
              カンフー

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                #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                3. Kata doesn't teach you how to fight it teaches you the techniuqes.
                Kata shouldn't teach you techniques. The instructor who you pay to teach you, should be teaching you techinques.

                Oh, yeah for the those who no habla - Uchikomi- Drilling

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                  #9
                  Someone said something about the street. I would never say this in aikiweb but my teacher always talks about you do so and so in the parking lot but not in the dojo.
                  My teacher teaches me when we do the paired kata together.
                  カンフー

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                    1. Bud Shi Dust explain yourself.
                    Kata is solitary forms. Bunkai is applied kata with two or more participants. You don't know what kata is, your randori undoubtably leaves much to be desired, and don't even get me started on your ne waza.

                    Just admit you're a bullshidoka, that is the first step towards recovery.

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                      #11
                      You are right. Kata is not bullshido.

                      When someone says that kata is the ideal method to learn how to fight, that's bullshido.

                      If a boxer said that the heavybag is all you need and that you don't need to actually spar, that's the bullshido, not the heavy bag.

                      If he said endless hours of shadowboxing is the way to learn how to fight, that's the bullshido not the shadowboxing.

                      I agree with you fully. Learn the technique on a complient partner, when you can do that transition to active resistance drills, dynamic drills and randori/free sparring. I don't think that's a very controversial position.

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                        #12
                        Bud Shi Dist I said traditional japanese kata is two man kata. Kata is not only solitary. The solitary stuff is Okinawan. We call paired kata sotai renshu.
                        カンフー

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                          Bud Shi Dist I said traditional japanese kata is two man kata.
                          No, That's bunkai
                          Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                          Kata is not only solitary.
                          Yes, it is.
                          Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                          The solitary stuff is Okinawan.
                          So Okinawan is not traditional japanese?
                          Originally posted by Mr. Jones
                          We call paired kata sotai renshu.
                          So why isn't this post called "sotai renshu is not Bullshido"?

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                            #14
                            I think in Iaido they do long complicated two man sets they call kata.

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                              #15
                              I'd say that the kata practice at my old Okinawan school was bull. In two years time I learned about 7 different kata. You'd pretty much learn them for a belt test while learning the right place to yell. Maybe an instructor would point out that your punch was too high or too off to the side. After the belt test, well, they were much less important. We spent very little time in class with kata, other than learning the choreography. It was not really ever expained. Really, only white-belts did the first one, as it was basically pointless.

                              In my WC/VT class things are very different. There are only 6 kata in the entire system, and it'll take you probably 10 or more years to get all six, if you ever get the last couple (It'll probably take about 2 years to get the first 3). We do the first kata a lot each class. The Sifu does it a lot each class too. Proper positioning is one thing, but the correct "energy" and relaxation is also stressed, along with endless minor details such as weight, gravity, balance, tension, elbow placement, shoulder placement, posture, etc., etc. We are told it will never be perfect and that it isn't supposed to be. We don't have belt tests.

                              My answer? Kata can be bullshido if it's just glossed over. In some instances, I think you can learn a great deal from some of them.

                              Dagon

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