Tired of so called "MMA" in UFC

[Cassius]

All the current title holders? Is that true? Maybe it is. I dunno. But it certainly hasn't been reflected in the fights. The current trend, the one we have been dicsusisng here lately, has been one towards GNP. People have been coming in with MUCH less grappling expertese than they used to. People are learning how to punch from the guard. The grappling domination is 5 years ago if not 10.

Ground work is still VITAL but to say it's all they do and that the striking is "just flailing" is retarded.

Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell (170 and 205 weightclasses) both have strong wrestling backgrounds. Arlovski comes from a Sambo background. Franklin trained in Karate or something growing up and I believe he picked up mma grappling and striking at around the same time.

Liddell, Arlovski, Franklin are all extremely gifted strikers (Arlovski is a little green in that area, but his natural athleticism seems to pick up the slack). Hughes doesn't normally stand and bang, but his striking isn't exactly terrible, either.

[chaosexmachina]

Matt Hughes has that really weird lunge punch style. Almost like he's trying to point fight.

[Omar]

Eggnog,

I threw that in because I was curious but it doesn't really change my point. Regardless of their solid grappling background in an MMA context I don't think
Liddell, Arlovski or Franklin for that matter are really "grapplers" in the way we used to sort fighters out into one of two categories. I can't remember having watched any MatT Hughs fights. I probably have but he didn't make an impression. Nowadays you have to be able to do it all but honestly, what does Liddell use wrestling for other than standing back up again after he's been taken down?

Even without the ref stand ups, I'd say that the days of lay and pray are long gone. When was the last time you saw a fight that would have looked like Royce/Shamrock even without the rule changes? My favorite, maybe one of the most brilliant MMA fights EVA! was Fedor/Minotauro. Two world class grapplers but the fight was still decided mainly on Fedors ability to punch. And think about how many times Fedor stood up like it was nothing. I understand that it is only because he is a Sambo God among men that he even could do stuff like shrugging off Minotauros Kimuras like a shot of cheap whiskey. But he still won by punching Minotauro.

Now getting back to the original argument....punching effectively from MINOTAURO'S GUARD is "just flailing"? puh-lease.

Oh yeah..and we all know what a ripped to the max roid freak Fedor is....*rolls eyes*

[Doctor Shaft]

I have to agree that there seems to be a "bias" in identifying "grapplers" vs. "strikers." Granted, there really shouldn't even be such classifications judging by the way things are evolving in the sport, but I suppose one could say that a person either favors striking people or favors in close grappling.

But I too don't like the Liddell = t3h grapple comparison. Yes, he took years of wrestling, and he got really good at it. Even still, I've yet to see a fight (admitedly, I haven't seen them all, so I may be just ignorant) where Liddell was "grappling" to win, or favoring the grab over the punch and kick. In addition, if he wasn't well-trained or good at striking, then disengaging from grapples would be entirely useless to him. What would be the point of escaping if you're not effective outside of it? Striking still requires dedication and work, doesn't it?

I'll agree that grappling is a necessary thing for any fighters repertoire, but when it comes down to it, are the guys that have blue belts and purple belts in BJJ or whatever groundfighting method really using "BJJ" in the ring, beyond the knowledge of how avoid being trapped in a grappling contest? If so, then I'll also argue that Liddell is now an example of Kempo godliness, since he's got a tattoo of it. :evil:

[BSDaemon]

This guy rules

F-ck you and Noam. He's a broke Nietzsche and Nietzsche was a poor mans Kirkegaard. But to hel- with the existentialism. He holds nothing on true geniuses like Baruch de Spinoza or Frank Tipler. In fact I would go so far as to say his I.Q. isn't even in the "bright" range.

BTW YOU geniuses have no memory. I'm no newbie to this forum and I'm no dolt. I am a medical professional who has done everything from CJJ/GJJ to Shorin Ryu. I know the real. I don't need anyone to tell me what the difference between anti-social behavior and sociopathy is. The former is a behavioral trait of many sociopaths. Having sociopathic disorder is the same as antisocial personality trait. I know because my DSM says so, layman dumbfuc-!

Mary do you even have a B.S. in anything remotely related to science? I doubt it so shut your trap with the empirical methodology argument! You couldn't even explain to me what a null hypothesis or two-tailed "t" test is. I also have a valid opinion based on my observational capabilities. I was raised fighting, watching hoods and fighers, befriending them and knowing real Gracies personally as well as others who fought for a living or for the thrill. The Gracies were by no means sociopaths, but many of the suckers doing that sport then and nowadays are, just like my friends who went to prison were. Many of them like to hurt and get hurt for money too. That says a lot about a group of people.

I am not trying to assail you with flowery language. I am giving you my opinion based on my reality. A lot of H.S. wrestlers and athletets are bullies, moreso than the percentage of the student body who are not wrestlers and athletes. Is there a study out there to corraborate this? You cats all went to or are in HS what do you think? As for numbers and studies. Who gives a flyin' f-ck?! Anyone who knows about research, statistics/epidemiology, knows that numbers and studies can always be manipulated to prove a point. So stfu with the attempt to sound academic. As a true academician and medical professional, I can see through your attempt at perpetrating the intellectual. Stop while you're behind, please. Nawmean?

It's alright if you enjoy receivin' and dishin' an ass whuppin'. That's very teutonic of you. Lets all make neurosis into a big money venture. OOPs already been/being done.

As for the rest of you flowery kung fools who now think because you saw the "Ultimate Fighter" for two years in a row and that it automatically makes you a squabbler--- you're sorely mistaken. Most of the supposed chuan fa you're learning just won't give you the proper foundation to ever be able to fight. Get real. Nowadays no one does the traditional; everyone is a MMAs expert! Hahahahaha! You ass pirates couldn't fight off a cold let alone to save your scrawny asses. Anyway if you're really a kung fu guy/gal, then why the f-ck you jockin' MMAs? They ain't jockin' you *****es. Grow some overnight or something. Oh and quit posting on a TMA forum, go to Bittchsheedo or somein'.....

Bandwagoneer, following never leading, fleeced sheep!!!


Either you can and always could fight, you joined a solid fighting art and got better, or you just can't throw. That's how that **** works, kiddies. Always has been like that and always will be, oblivious f-cks.

Whas'sup 7*?! Merry X-mas!!!!

Omegapoint

[Cassius]

Eggnog,

I threw that in because I was curious but it doesn't really change my point. Regardless of their solid grappling background in an MMA context I don't think
Liddell, Arlovski or Franklin for that matter are really "grapplers" in the way we used to sort fighters out into one of two categories. I can't remember having watched any MatT Hughs fights. I probably have but he didn't make an impression. Nowadays you have to be able to do it all but honestly, what does Liddell use wrestling for other than standing back up again after he's been taken down?

Even without the ref stand ups, I'd say that the days of lay and pray are long gone. When was the last time you saw a fight that would have looked like Royce/Shamrock even without the rule changes? My favorite, maybe one of the most brilliant MMA fights EVA! was Fedor/Minotauro. Two world class grapplers but the fight was still decided mainly on Fedors ability to punch. And think about how many times Fedor stood up like it was nothing. I understand that it is only because he is a Sambo God among men that he even could do stuff like shrugging off Minotauros Kimuras like a shot of cheap whiskey. But he still won by punching Minotauro.

Now getting back to the original argument....punching effectively from MINOTAURO'S GUARD is "just flailing"? puh-lease.

Oh yeah..and we all know what a ripped to the max roid freak Fedor is....*rolls eyes*

I wasn't attempting to contradict you, just trying to provide you with information that you did not seem to have. I agree with your arguments wholeheartedly.

And Fedor is also a world class Judoka, not just a world class sambo player. He took up boxing in 2000, I believe, which is what makes his striking ability so amazing to me. And he and Minotauro did have some awesome matches. Fedor's offense from inside the guard is staggering.

I've always read that a lot of the looping overhands MMAists seem to be so fond of throwing are adapted from Russian-style boxing. I think there may have even been a thread about it somewhere on bullshido in the last 6 or 8 months.

[chaosexmachina]

There will always be guys who are better at one than the other. For example, guys like Crocop and Mark Hunt, coming from striking backgrounds and starting to learn grappling. But nowadays, even more so in the future, most MMA fighters are pretty well rounded. Guys like me who want to fight and started learning both games at the same time.

[CúChulainn]

I can't believe no one has gone apeshit over this little piece of brilliance:

People like sensationalism, other's misery and gratutious idiocy. It's makes their miserable lives seem less drastic. Mankind has proven that ****t ever since forever.

People who fight for the sake of fighting are sadist and/or masochists, whether on a minimal level, moderate level or extreme one. It takes all kinds to move the world, I guess. Imagine if all you could do in life was fight for a living. That's pretty wack. Hurting and getting hurt for what amounts to peanuts compared to other pro sports; just pitiful. It goes beyond that though. These fools love to fight because they've conditioned their brains for it. They are just wired in a weird way. They also have a high threshold for excitement; they are often adrenaline junkies and thrill seekers just like fools who base jump and ****tt. It's not like most of those cats are rocket scientists anyway (Rich Franklin not included). Most of them are bully types and just like high school wrestlers (which most of them were) they have a problem with self-loathing or low self-esteem or controlling others through aggression. Many of them probably come from very abusive -OR- overly permissive backgrounds (i.e.: sociopathic). Without a fully developed conscience beating on someone who is not a real enemy is a lot easier.

Okay so the proper response to all this is if you can't fight but call yourself a martial artist then you need to rethink your classification. In that instance "Martial Wanna-be" or "Martial Novice" would be more appropriate. Conversely, a lot of the MMAs types are martial artists gone astray; Bushi Matsumura wrote about them in the 1800's. They nedd validation outside of themselves. It's called the "Bujutsu of Nominals". Look for Machimura's "Buccho Ikko" and peep a real martial artists assessment of the state of MAs as they always will be.

Happy Holidays to those who celebrate them!!!!

__________________

[JohnnyCache]

In other words, "I got beat up all the time and am forever stuck in that period mentally because I never did anything about it."

[chaosexmachina]

Haha. I guess my brain put those kinds of stupid rants on auto ignore.

[Lampa]

You know, there were only a handful of truely horrible posts in that thread. Most seemed a little off but not completely stupifying.

Compared to having to convince people they don't have magic powers it just seems tame.

[Moleculo]

I am but a simple MMA caveman and these large words confuse and annoy me.

[Te(V)plar]

This thread is considered "good" by their standards? I'm getting a migraine reading this slack of shit. I want to break my foot off in half their asses.

I mean, wtf, seriously. Some of these kiddies are playing the "omg bjj and mma=TEH DARK SIDE" crap.

People like sensationalism, other's misery and gratutious idiocy. It's makes their miserable lives seem less drastic. Mankind has proven that ****t ever since forever.

People who fight for the sake of fighting are sadist and/or masochists, whether on a minimal level, moderate level or extreme one. It takes all kinds to move the world, I guess. Imagine if all you could do in life was fight for a living. That's pretty wack. Hurting and getting hurt for what amounts to peanuts compared to other pro sports; just pitiful. It goes beyond that though. These fools love to fight because they've conditioned their brains for it. They are just wired in a weird way. They also have a high threshold for excitement; they are often adrenaline junkies and thrill seekers just like fools who base jump and ****tt. It's not like most of those cats are rocket scientists anyway (Rich Franklin not included). Most of them are bully types and just like high school wrestlers (which most of them were) they have a problem with self-loathing or low self-esteem or controlling others through aggression. Many of them probably come from very abusive -OR- overly permissive backgrounds (i.e.: sociopathic). Without a fully developed conscience beating on someone who is not a real enemy is a lot easier.

Okay so the proper response to all this is if you can't fight but call yourself a martial artist then you need to rethink your classification. In that instance "Martial Wanna-be" or "Martial Novice" would be more appropriate. Conversely, a lot of the MMAs types are martial artists gone astray; Bushi Matsumura wrote about them in the 1800's. They nedd validation outside of themselves. It's called the "Bujutsu of Nominals". Look for Machimura's "Buccho Ikko" and peep a real martial artists assessment of the state of MAs as they always will be.

Happy Holidays to those who celebrate them!!!!

LOL!

*Edit: oops, already posted in here, but I highlighted my fave parts.

[Grashnak]

Bushi Matsumura wrote about them in the 1800's. They nedd validation outside of themselves. It's called the "Bujutsu of Nominals".

NOMINAL

adj.
Of, resembling, relating to, or consisting of a name or names.
Assigned to or bearing a person's name: nominal shares.
Existing in name only.

Philosophy. Of or relating to nominalism.

Insignificantly small; trifling: a nominal sum.

Business.
Of, relating to, or being the amount or face value of a sum of money or a stock certificate, for example, and not the purchasing power or market value.

Of, relating to, or being the rate of interest or return without adjustment for compounding or inflation.

Grammar. Of or relating to a noun or word group that functions as a noun.

Aerospace & Engineering. According to plan or design: a nominal flight check.

n. Grammar
A word or group of words functioning as a noun.

NOMINALISM
n. Philosophy
The doctrine holding that abstract concepts, general terms, or universals have no independent existence but exist only as names.

Soooooo, what the fuck is the Bujutsu of Nominals?

Can I please please please put that in my style field?


:occasion1

[Odacon]

I'm extemely unhappy that this jobber has dragged Bushi Matsumura into his rants.