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    Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Last edited by Tommyknocker; 1/07/2006 11:58am, .

    #2
    There is another guy on this forum that does Taijutsu in addition to other arts and he has given me some good information on it. However, I have questions for anyone who is knowledgeable about a certain fellow named Stephen K. Hayes, who has written several books on the subject.

    I was reading his Ninja: And their Secret Fighting Art , and I have spotted some obvious Bullshido in many places. Now I believe he did train under Hatsumi, and Hayes is obviously knowledgeable on a lot of Ninja history, weapons, and tactics. However, I am noticing a lot of "he barely touched me and I went down", "he stood there and I could not take him down no matter what I did"(smacks of anti-grapple), or "he slapped my (limb) and it was numb for ____ seconds" type stuff. I'm sorry but if someone taps your forearm with their thumb and it goes completely numb you just suck.

    Is it possible that Hayes DID train with Hatsumi but started making up a lot of Bullshido when he returned? What's the deal with this?

    Comment


      #3
      I'm fairly sure Hayes did train with Hatsumi.

      Comment


        #4
        "I'm sorry but if someone taps your forearm with their thumb and it goes completely numb you just suck. "

        Are you a righty? Take your left hand, and turn it blade edge down like you were gonna karate chop (shuto) something. Now, feel your wrist right behind the thumb. Can you feel where the bone comes to the surface? Now clench your right fist, and using the bottom of your knuckles at the second joint (like how you knock on wood or a door) smash where the bone comes to the surface on you left wrist.
        I read Hayes' book, too, and I wondered what he was talking about. Then, when I actually took BBT my instructor had me attempt to grab him and he did that, and it felt like my hand had been CUT OFF! The pain was all consuming. I wasn't a pussy at the time; either. I was a 6'1 200 lbs TKD idiot who had done a lot of iron fist training and was used to punching brick walls and metal I-beams without any pain, full force. It's called Koppojutsu, or bonebreaking techniques. Ever been kicked in the shin? Remember how much that hurt? Same idea. Anywhere a bone comes to the surface, you can attack it and damage the hell out of it with another hard surface. Bone bruises are common, but you can even break it. My instructor sat down once and told me to kick him in th head. I fired a Thai roundhouse at him, and even though I held way back, he smashed his clenched knuckles into my shin and I had a egg-shaped and sized lump on my shin for months.
        In Jiujitsu, have they shown you any bone on bone moves? Like using your forearm or elbow to apply pressure to fingers on a pinned arm against the ground in mount or side mount?
        Trust me, this stuff hurts.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Kengou
          I'm fairly sure Hayes did train with Hatsumi.

          Yeah I'm certainly not going to question that part. The book I was reading shows numerous pictures taken with Hatsumi. I am just wondering if Hatsumi would back the anecdotes of all the "Dim Mak" style stuff Hayes describes in the early chapters of the book.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by bad credit
            "I'm sorry but if someone taps your forearm with their thumb and it goes completely numb you just suck. "

            Are you a righty? Take your left hand, and turn it blade edge down like you were gonna karate chop (shuto) something. Now, feel your wrist right behind the thumb. Can you feel where the bone comes to the surface? Now clench your right fist, and using the bottom of your knuckles at the second joint (like how you knock on wood or a door) smash where the bone comes to the surface on you left wrist.
            I read Hayes' book, too, and I wondered what he was talking about. Then, when I actually took BBT my instructor had me attempt to grab him and he did that, and it felt like my hand had been CUT OFF! The pain was all consuming. I wasn't a pussy at the time; either. I was a 6'1 200 lbs TKD idiot who had done a lot of iron fist training and was used to punching brick walls and metal I-beams without any pain, full force. It's called Koppojutsu, or bonebreaking techniques. Ever been kicked in the shin? Remember how much that hurt? Same idea. Anywhere a bone comes to the surface, you can attack it and damage the hell out of it with another hard surface. Bone bruises are common, but you can even break it. My instructor sat down once and told me to kick him in th head. I fired a Thai roundhouse at him, and even though I held way back, he smashed his clenched knuckles into my shin and I had a egg-shaped and sized lump on my shin for months.
            In Jiujitsu, have they shown you any bone on bone moves? Like using your forearm or elbow to apply pressure to fingers on a pinned arm against the ground in mount or side mount?
            Trust me, this stuff hurts.


            I'm trying it and I can see where the pain comes from, but I have doubts about people applying that at combat speeds RELIABLY. In jujitsu I totally see the benefits, like the counter to the figure-four lock to the body where you drive your elbow into the flat on the side of their shin. That is an instant tap, although I noticed some long-time kickboxers can take the pain a little longer.

            Still there are a lot of things in there where he talks about being knocked flat ALMOST without being hit.

            Comment


              #7
              Bad Credit.

              I suggest you find a conditioined Kyokushin/Muay Tai fighter. Have them to a round house kick to you. Try and use your finger knuckles against their shin. You'll be lucky if your arm doe not break in half.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Hannibal
                Bad Credit.

                I suggest you find a conditioined Kyokushin/Muay Tai fighter. Have them to a round house kick to you. Try and use your finger knuckles against their shin. You'll be lucky if your arm doe not break in half.

                EX-ACT-LY!!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hannibal
                  Bad Credit.

                  I suggest you find a conditioined Kyokushin/Muay Tai fighter. Have them to a round house kick to you. Try and use your finger knuckles against their shin. You'll be lucky if your arm doe not break in half.
                  Wow, this must be the first time you say something that hasn't been posted 100x times on the thread.

                  And it's original!

                  PL

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This post is under construction.
                    Last edited by Lane; 8/03/2005 12:36pm, .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hayes may have good training but hes full of shit.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        This post is under construction.
                        Last edited by Lane; 8/03/2005 12:36pm, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hey, his books are great. Someone gave me one of his one time, and it helped me get my cartwheels down. Any book that teaches cool things like cartwheels is fine by me.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Most of my interest in ninjitsu is limited to military history and their short range infiltration tactics. For fighting I'll stick with jujitsu for the most part. However I do have an interest in trying kenjutsu as a hobby and I believe the only people teaching that in my area is the Bujinkan program.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              .....
                              Last edited by Tommyknocker; 1/07/2006 11:59am, .

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