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Just another WT(CH) thread

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    Just another WT(CH) thread

    I do not understand why WT is such a bigger subject here compared to other TMA, but I would like to add my two cents on it, one for the wtnners, the other for... the others

    Dear WT practitioners, our (yes I do it) is a wonderful art, as it gives you body mechanics awareness to such an extent that no other art I've seen/practiced does. Its main strength it's that it gives you really useful tools to use in a real "life situation": imo no other arts gives you the opportunity to strike first, quick and effectively as WT. I am thinking about i.e. a situation in which your are standing in a bar and someone suddendly start to get aggressive: with WT you have the best thing to attack before the other has even started moving, and that's key to achieve "victory" in every non-ring situation.
    BUT, it a striking art, it lacks the groundwork and the antigrappling/ground programs are only a set of predefined tentatives to defend: if you really become the target of a takedown by an experienced wrestler/jodoka/jutsuka they will not work: the only opportunity in that case is if you strike first, but first mean before the attacker has started its attack, because being hitt by an average wrestler for a takedown is like trying to stop a train coming, and it's completely diffrent from what we do in the gym as drills.
    Also, it is really diffcult to master, as it's position and movement are unnaturale for a male (I've seen women more a t ease with it): whta you gain in two years of MT, you need at least 6 years to get with WT:
    And it's not deviced to win a prolonged fight: by this I mean to stand one in front of another with gloves on trading blows; you have to train hard for that, and physical conditioning is essential in that case, and again in that case you need to adopt other stances and attack types. Do NOT even think to go against a pro fighter: pro means hours of training, abiility to trade countless blows, high tuned reflexes, if you "challenge" someone to spar, do it TO LEARN not to prove something, and if it's a pro fighter ask him to go really easy on you.

    For the others: I can assure you that if properly learned (I am speaking of more than 7yrs here), WT it's a pain in the [email protected], as the attacks and mechanics are really good and quick. The main thing that is not understood, and I must say by WTnners especially, is that WT is an internal art, which means that it gives you principles: the important thing is not to adopt the right WT stance, is to correctly align bones, sinews and tendons in your body and get the strenght to hit from the ground. In fact when you reach a high level (biu jee, more than 6-7 yrs of practice), you basically de-construct all your stances etc. A good WT technician IS dangerous, as he can hit really fast from a non fighting stance and position, gain ground even faster to reach short distance, and has a great sensitivness.

    And another thing to clarify: to spar with someone you need to get in a kind of boxing/fullcontact stance; traditional IRAS will not work, the "one leg" could go (similar to MT defence stance), but if you spar you will need to trade blows, and this means put on some kind of guard. Again you can use the principles, but the external style must be different.

    A methapohr to clarify all of this: let's take for example MT and WT.
    Mt is like a katana, WT like a short knife: if you put two men one armed with a katana and one with a short knife in a ring, katan guy will slice the other to pieces. But a knife is nonethelss effective, as it can be put in a pocket, you can take out it really quick without the other knowing it before is hit by it, and in the right conditions for him, even a man with a knife can win a man with a sword.

    Cheers

    :profe:

    #2
    If you have to explain it this much, there is something wrong. Why not pick up a katana instead of a knife?

    Comment


      #3
      <sigh> WC rationaliztion thread #666 is a go.

      Comment


        #4
        imo no other arts gives you the opportunity to strike first, quick and effectively as WT.
        Why? A quick strike to counter should be no mystery to any striker regardless of style.

        And it's not deviced to win a prolonged fight: by this I mean to stand one in front of another with gloves on trading blows; you have to train hard for that, and physical conditioning is essential in that case, and again in that case you need to adopt other stances and attack types.
        Alot of chunners out there skip the conditioning. That's a shame.

        Spar, try out different ways to punch/kick/move etc and integrate the _ing _un into this to get a way of fighting that works. Prolonged fights or short ones.

        Comment


          #5
          so basically you admit that wing tsun is all about being an unconditioned fat fuck and also say you should strike first. fat people move slow so in essence you are saying wing tsun sucks.

          good to see we agree.

          Comment


            #6
            ... 6-7 years to be useful is a tad tooo long for something that is marketed so heavyly as a fast and easy to learn self-defense system ...

            Comment


              #7
              6-7 years in muay thai and you can be a pro fighter, which according to your logic means that muay thai is better than wing chun/tsun.

              again, i concur

              Comment


                #8
                The way it is market in fact is wrong IMO, it is not easy at all, is way opposite of being easy to learn; as a matter of fact in my country it's not market that way, maybe is more a US commercial thing.

                The conditioning thing is a reality: in class you only apply to the techincal side, the conditioning (cardio etc.) is up to you outside the class.

                The pepole who join my school are on the opposite people with other MA background (there's a black belt judo, various people from kick boxing), maybe this is the reason why we are able to see the value in it (I must say the teachers are good too). Most of us joined in fact after seen the instructor and practicing with him, in order to fill some gaps in our previous background.

                Regarding the fast hit, I mean that the body mechanicas are devised in such a way you do not need to prepare for a hit (I mean going in a guard, shifting the weight, inhaling etc.), which usually gives an edge

                ...and for all the chinless drooling internet geeks out there... I AM NOT FAT!

                Comment


                  #9
                  So you are in a bar and some big nasty man is suddenly coming right at you. How does the bodymechanics of a _ing _un counterpunch work keep you safer than a typical boxing jab?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by bncwd
                    The way it is market in fact is wrong IMO, it is not easy at all, is way opposite of being easy to learn; as a matter of fact in my country it's not market that way, maybe is more a US commercial thing.

                    The conditioning thing is a reality: in class you only apply to the techincal side, the conditioning (cardio etc.) is up to you outside the class.

                    The pepole who join my school are on the opposite people with other MA background (there's a black belt judo, various people from kick boxing), maybe this is the reason why we are able to see the value in it (I must say the teachers are good too). Most of us joined in fact after seen the instructor and practicing with him, in order to fill some gaps in our previous background.

                    Regarding the fast hit, I mean that the body mechanicas are devised in such a way you do not need to prepare for a hit (I mean going in a guard, shifting the weight, inhaling etc.), which usually gives an edge
                    What edge? The supposed non-telegraphic nature of WC is pretty much a myth, from what I can see. They don't hit any harder with a quick shot then any other art, and they don't seem to be as good at harder punching, in general.

                    What country are you from, BTW?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I am a _ing _unner and I enjoy practising the art. All the inflated claims coming from so many just make me so tired though. Most of them I think practice very isolated. Kings of their own basement.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Italy.

                        Try to explain, speaking of basic punches: strenght comes from the ground/stance, but in a different way than boxing. In boxing for i.e. a cross or a jab you turn the foot, leg, hip torso and shoulder in order to put weight on the punch.

                        In WT the stance aligns internally shoulder, back, hips, knee and foot and the body just "falls" a little bit upfront: this leads to advancing and putting in any kind of blow the sum of the different body parts effort plus the advancing.

                        In boxing you have a turning / spiral momentum, maybe helped with an advancing step in WT you have a bottom upwards momentum transferred with a slight advanicng/falling step.

                        They are both effective if properly trained (problem is boxers work a lot on heavy bags, WTnners usually don't, so the technique comes out shitty), but with the WT one process you need much less movement to put weight on the punch, and no stance preparation at all.

                        I can assure you that the WT punch if properly done is a really heavy one.

                        Problem is, again, that many WT practitioners only do "shadow WT", in the air, while you need to train like a boxer in order to make that kind of hit effective.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by bncwd
                          if you really become the target of a takedown by an experienced wrestler/jodoka/jutsuka
                          Well, if a jodoka wants to take you down, of course you're fucked. He's going to hit you repeatedly with a really big stick.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You still have to make the minor adjustment from your ale drinking stance to the aligned stance. You have to judge distance and strike.
                            I would think the difference in time for a _ing _un guy to go from unprepared to strike would be quite insignificant compared to a boxer (but that is a guess, I haven't measured the times).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Astrosmurf
                              You still have to make the minor adjustment from your ale drinking stance to the aligned stance. You have to judge distance and strike.


                              I would think the difference in time for a _ing _un guy to go from unprepared to strike would be quite insignificant compared to a boxer (but that is a guess, I haven't measured the times).
                              Yes but that both for boxing and WT.

                              Having done both, at least for me WT is faster

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