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Wally Jay & SmallCircleJiuJitsu. ..??

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    Wally Jay & SmallCircleJiuJitsu. ..??

    I'm just looking for any input You all might have regarding SmallCircleJiuJitsu..and especially Wally Jay.

    I've read a lot about Him online & in print. So, any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

    much obliged.

    T.

    #2
    Originally posted by T. Ardee
    I'm just looking for any input You all might have regarding SmallCircleJiuJitsu..and especially Wally Jay.

    I've read a lot about Him online & in print. So, any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

    much obliged.

    T.
    I've been to some of his seminars here in the NW. Wally Jay is very old (in his eighties -- maybe nineties now), but very spry and funny. What I've seen in his seminars consisted mainly of really, really painful wrist/joint and (owie) finger manipulations (he's well known for finger-breaking, apparently).

    Anyway, it's good technique; he's very knowledgeable and pretty funny too, from what I remember.

    -daGorilla

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      #3
      Wally Jay is a master's master who still goes 'on tour' promoting his art, and helping others promote theirs. If you don't believe that sh*t works, volunteer at a demonstration. His base art is DanZan Ryu JuJitsu (Henry Okazaki). Small Circle JuJitsu originated from subset of techniques taught by Professor Okazaki, drawing heavily from Hawaiian Lua.


      `~/
      sigpic

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        #4
        I guess I would say is that he has a unique form or way of doing jujitsu.
        Ghost of Charles Dickens

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          #5
          Originally posted by Freddy
          I guess I would say is that he has a unique form or way of doing jujitsu.
          I would agree.

          `~/
          sigpic

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            #6
            Wally Jay was my uncle's Sensei in Judo and Jiu Jitsu and I've met him. The only thing that I don't like is their (Leon the son and Wally) relationship with Dillman, Mr. Pressure Point.

            The style has less live training (from what little I know) than BJJ. It is more like Japanese JJ. Which people like Asia have said they prefer for military use because you don't go to the ground.
            "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

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              #7
              Thanks..pretty much, exactly what I thought. I think the "master's master" comment is right on.

              I don't however, like the (tm) that follows any mention of SmallCircleJiujitsu. The commercialization of the MartialArts is what almost ruined them; pre-KarateKid it was totally different.

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                #8
                Right. But you can't necessarily say that Wally Jay's adding the (tm) is to blame, or even a contribution. There's a good chance that he's only done that after the bastardization as a way of protecting himself and his organization.
                Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


                "You all just got fucking owned.";
                "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

                - The Wastrel

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                  #9
                  Leon Jay teaches at the centre I work at and from what I've seen it's pretty legit. They seem to go pretty hard with resistant partners though they could do a bit more sparring.
                  Dedicated to legs and the disrespecting thereof.

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                    #10
                    I have no faith in small joint manipulation.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by BatRonin
                      I have no faith in small joint manipulation.

                      I agree with that if it is an all out brawl.

                      For folks that have to deal with those that are not fully headsmashing but not fully retreating (LEO dealing with 'soft' resisting people, Mental institutions, School teachers trying to restrain students....) the stuff isn't bad to know.

                      The think I don't like about the training is when I see people that don't know how to really 'lock you up' with it and it looks like a bad dating experience: One person keeps trying to grag the other's hands or hug them while the other keeps squirming way.

                      Joint controls need to be delivered just as deliberately and quickly and committedly (is that a word?) as if it were a punch, kick or throw.

                      THe other reason I think they have validity is that there is a subtle difference in delivery of a 'control' and a 'break' is quickness.

                      If I am fumbling with a bad guy and get hold of a finger, toe, wrist....and have trained to twist,pull, press...that joint it is nothing to do the same motion with 'snapping motion' instead of 'pressing motion' so a 'lock' becomes a 'break'

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                        #12
                        I once dislocated my finger while doing some bag work ( don't ask), I poped it back in and finished the last 2 rounds.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by BatRonin
                          I have no faith in small joint manipulation.
                          There's only two instances where wrist/finger locks work:


                          1. Your opponent is totally unprepared and caught by surprise
                          (all the standing wristlocks)

                          or


                          2. You have developed your position and imobilized the limb.
                          (which is the basis of judo/bjj type grounwork)

                          IMHO Small cirle JJ bets on the first and to a point misses out on the second.

                          Tomas
                          Current stage of death: denial

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by BatRonin
                            I once dislocated my finger while doing some bag work ( don't ask), I poped it back in and finished the last 2 rounds.

                            I won't ask, but I will say this. That pause that you had would have made an opening the opponent if it had been in a real engagement.

                            Also, in a real situation, that hand would have been less effective as a tool holding, striking/grabbing weapon to use against your opponent.

                            Thirdly, no one was holding on to it for dear life wiggling and twisting it so that all those fun neurons that fire would cause enough pain to make you distracted, drain energy from a fighting will.

                            I am not saying you don't have the 'sand,' just that these things do have an impact overall as well as a place in the tool box of skills for some folks.

                            It really comes down to time on task: How much time are you spending on the different components of MA: Grappling (standing/ground), striking, blocking, mobility/footwork, tactics.....

                            I have a small list of locks and throws (ground and standing) that I try to focus on so that I can do them cold instead of having 1000 that I can half do.

                            I asked you before but I think it got lost in the discussion:

                            WHat type of operation are you officer of ( I read it in your bio)
                            Last edited by loki09789; 6/24/2005 10:08am, .

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by patfromlogan
                              Wally Jay was my uncle's Sensei in Judo and Jiu Jitsu and I've met him. The only thing that I don't like is their (Leon the son and Wally) relationship with Dillman, Mr. Pressure Point.

                              The style has less live training (from what little I know) than BJJ. It is more like Japanese JJ. Which people like Asia have said they prefer for military use because you don't go to the ground.

                              I've been to 1 or 2 seminars featuring Remy Presas, Wally Jay, and Grandmaster Flashpants (Dillman).

                              Wally Jay's stuff seemed pretty damn good. I don't think finger breaking is the limit of his art. He's damn good at it though. I suspect he could toss just about anyone on their head with a combination of his judo/jj experience. And he doesn't dislocate fingers, he bloody well breaks them. ow. (I keep thinking of that scene with Rutger Hauer and Harrison Ford in Bladerunner....)

                              For the record -- Presas was quite good too. My Arnis instructor was a direct student of his. A pity he died relatively young (in his 60's) from cancer.

                              Dillman comes off like a football coach selling books. I'm sure some of his pressure point stuff is fine, but regardless of how legit or illegit his art may be, he seemed more interested in pimping and less interested in showing any worthwhile technique. I suspect this won't surprise anyone here.

                              -daGorilla

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