Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[Devil]

That saying is lame. You being a southerner expect more Mark Twain kind of wisdom

[Raycetpfl]

Oh, you mean sophisticated, highly trained technical people who are also incredibly handsome and charming, and make 7 figures a year ?

Exactly!

I don't want to blabber a relatively known persons yearly income but I do know somebody who works security(they own the company) and makes 7 figures. Unfortunately that person is not me.

[Raycetpfl]

Walk in middle of road, sooner or later get squish like grape.

That saying is lame. You being a southerner expect more Mark Twain kind of wisdom

[Devil]

Some people hope nothing happens, others wishamuthafukerwud

Walk in middle of road, sooner or later get squish like grape.

[BKR]

This confirms my suspicions about the kind of people who work as bouncers

Oh, you mean sophisticated, highly trained technical people who are also incredibly handsome and charming, and make 7 figures a year ?

Exactly!

[Raycetpfl]

This confirms my suspicions about the kind of people who work as bouncers

Some people hope nothing happens, others wishamuthafukerwud

[Mandem]

I am someone who makes 6 figures but bounces anyway cause yolking up assholes is fun for me.

This confirms my suspicions about the kind of people who work as bouncers

[Raycetpfl]

I liked the times we did self defense in BJJ. Sylvio Behring school, tho, not Gracie.

Helio>Barretto> Sylvio behring

He's an OG though.

[BKR]

I liked the times we did self defense in BJJ. Sylvio Behring school, tho, not Gracie.

[Raycetpfl]

This is true. Even an untrained athlete has better odds than an untrained person in a one on one scenario, but self-defence can cover that mugging scenario, or tough street kids, crazy people, or in my case when gypsies try to storm your local bar.

I guess while we're at it I'll just share this, so someone can learn from my fuck up. It reminds me of that old Jocko Willink video on martial arts (that was covered on here) before his podcast. In it he said something like, "when will you be attacked, today, tomorrow, three years, how ready can you be?" Well in our academy we start off each class with a self defence technique. There's an A class and a B class during the week, so you get two scenarios each week. Over here a lot of businesses take of two weeks from Christmas holiday, and Friday everyone finishes work for break is called "Black eye Friday" because everyone goes out and celebrates finally being off work, people are out for their Christmas parties, you have the once a year drinkers out because there's a reason why they don't normally drink, etc, so things happen. All month my Professor brought this up, preaching situational awareness. "If I'm having a beer in my house I can relax. It's 'silly season' so if you're out in town look who's around you, getting close to you, crossing the street, yadada." And we move on to the techniques, closing or creating distance to deal with threats, dealing with strikes, not going to the ground, what to do if you're tripped or dragged to the ground, dealing with strikes, not getting hit, getting to your feet, all basic stuff. I've even learnt this elsewhere, and in other martial arts.

Well last Friday, the day after Boxing Day, I was bumrushed by a group of gypos. They've been put out of the four towns leading to this one for violence and anti-social behaviour, and they haven't been around here in years. Apparently they had their caravan parked while they were drinking in the only bar they're allowed to, and heard the alarm on it going off, and decided to go apeshit. I walked out of our door after hearing some shouting and just saw a group charging me.....now before I get into it. I've been in street fights before. I compete in MMA. I've KOd people with my hands and feet(or shin). I'm a BJJ competitor. I'm a 4 striped Purple belt who in my last 3 comps got 2 golds and a bronze, didn't even train for the bronze one, and injured, so even though I train self-defence, I do compete. I have the confidence that if I'm in a street scenario(I have been in the past, including 2 attempted muggings) I can handle myself. The town I live in is a small one where everyone knows everyone. Usually at work I'm throwing out drunk rugby guys who I'm normally friendly with, and we'll have a beer next I see them and laugh about it, so I never feel at threat here. It's a small tight knit community.

Well this was the first time I've been attacked by these odds, a scenario I never thought I'd be in because I'd probably see it coming and either get out of it, or not let it get that far. But no, there's a group of strangers that grew up bareknuckle boxing charging me, and I fucked up what I was taught, and teach. Just gut reaction I doubled legged the first one that went for me. We always teach never to go to the ground, or go passed knee on belly for self defence. Out of habbit(we're currently training for a comp), and went into mount, and that split second where I was about to jump into knee on belly I had a mop shaft broken over me, and start eating steel toed boots to the face and head. After a brief moment of getting river danced on in the turtle, I remembered to cover up and get to my feet. The last place I felt a thud, I knee someone was on one leg and went for a single to both get him off me, and get to my feet, then it just felt like a mosh pit. I was just push kicking, threw a few strikes(have busted knuckled that were sore hitting pads last night with), eating a few back,and pushing until finally a girl(who got punched by one of them) said the cops were coming. One of the scum bags even tried taking a selfie with me before they ran back and high tailed in the caravan.

So I let my guard down. I should've noticed the caravan, and been on guard going outside. There's no way in hell I was going to not get jumped, but If I wouldn't have gone into mount (I'll have to swallow my pride and say that could also have been the mistake of over confidence) I would've been on my feet longer, and wouldn't have ate those shots. When I did create distance, I should've run. While this was going on, no one ran to my aid, they instead shut and locked the doors in fear, and a part of me didn't want to leave anyone else with those animals. Better me than anyone else. The view from the cameras showed 4 of them on me. The girl that got punched said there were more present. Had that mop shaft have been a baseball bat, or if one had a bottle or sharp object, I could be in the hospital right now, or exiting this earth. Luckily I made it out with a nasty shiner, or normal bums and bruises. The next day just felt like an MMA loss, but the phone calls I was getting from people that heard reminded me I'm lucky that's all it was, and this shit is never happening again. One fortunate thing though, is it was me, and even though I slipped in an impossible situation, I'd like to see someone who wasn't taught these concepts try to berimbola their way out of that

Helio Gracie would be proud.
Self defense isn't about winning. It's about not losing. Your IQ, teeth, organs, and bones were intact after the altercation. That's all that matters really.

[Ulsteryank]

Just in case anyone thinks I'm bullshitting lol, here's me last Friday after it happened, and here's me this Friday past healed up and back at work. After a good salt bath and some arnica they eye was already opening the next day, and the scrapes were mostly gone the day after.

[W. Rabbit]

I remembered to cover up and get to my feet.

That was a great anecdote.. For what it's worth, from everything I was ever taught in BJJ, this is the supreme position.

Ireland sounds like a rough place. We don't have roaming caravans of gypsy gangs in America.

Our gangs stay kind of stationary. That's where the term "homey" comes from. South Central, LA.

[Dr. Gonzo]

This is true. Even an untrained athlete has better odds than an untrained person in a one on one scenario, but self-defence can cover that mugging scenario, or tough street kids, crazy people, or in my case when gypsies try to storm your local bar.

I guess while we're at it I'll just share this, so someone can learn from my fuck up. It reminds me of that old Jocko Willink video on martial arts (that was covered on here) before his podcast. In it he said something like, "when will you be attacked, today, tomorrow, three years, how ready can you be?" Well in our academy we start off each class with a self defence technique. There's an A class and a B class during the week, so you get two scenarios each week. Over here a lot of businesses take of two weeks from Christmas holiday, and Friday everyone finishes work for break is called "Black eye Friday" because everyone goes out and celebrates finally being off work, people are out for their Christmas parties, you have the once a year drinkers out because there's a reason why they don't normally drink, etc, so things happen. All month my Professor brought this up, preaching situational awareness. "If I'm having a beer in my house I can relax. It's 'silly season' so if you're out in town look who's around you, getting close to you, crossing the street, yadada." And we move on to the techniques, closing or creating distance to deal with threats, dealing with strikes, not going to the ground, what to do if you're tripped or dragged to the ground, dealing with strikes, not getting hit, getting to your feet, all basic stuff. I've even learnt this elsewhere, and in other martial arts.

Well last Friday, the day after Boxing Day, I was bumrushed by a group of gypos. They've been put out of the four towns leading to this one for violence and anti-social behaviour, and they haven't been around here in years. Apparently they had their caravan parked while they were drinking in the only bar they're allowed to, and heard the alarm on it going off, and decided to go apeshit. I walked out of our door after hearing some shouting and just saw a group charging me.....now before I get into it. I've been in street fights before. I compete in MMA. I've KOd people with my hands and feet(or shin). I'm a BJJ competitor. I'm a 4 striped Purple belt who in my last 3 comps got 2 golds and a bronze, didn't even train for the bronze one, and injured, so even though I train self-defence, I do compete. I have the confidence that if I'm in a street scenario(I have been in the past, including 2 attempted muggings) I can handle myself. The town I live in is a small one where everyone knows everyone. Usually at work I'm throwing out drunk rugby guys who I'm normally friendly with, and we'll have a beer next I see them and laugh about it, so I never feel at threat here. It's a small tight knit community.

Well this was the first time I've been attacked by these odds, a scenario I never thought I'd be in because I'd probably see it coming and either get out of it, or not let it get that far. But no, there's a group of strangers that grew up bareknuckle boxing charging me, and I fucked up what I was taught, and teach. Just gut reaction I doubled legged the first one that went for me. We always teach never to go to the ground, or go passed knee on belly for self defence. Out of habbit(we're currently training for a comp), and went into mount, and that split second where I was about to jump into knee on belly I had a mop shaft broken over me, and start eating steel toed boots to the face and head. After a brief moment of getting river danced on in the turtle, I remembered to cover up and get to my feet. The last place I felt a thud, I knee someone was on one leg and went for a single to both get him off me, and get to my feet, then it just felt like a mosh pit. I was just push kicking, threw a few strikes(have busted knuckled that were sore hitting pads last night with), eating a few back,and pushing until finally a girl(who got punched by one of them) said the cops were coming. One of the scum bags even tried taking a selfie with me before they ran back and high tailed in the caravan.

So I let my guard down. I should've noticed the caravan, and been on guard going outside. There's no way in hell I was going to not get jumped, but If I wouldn't have gone into mount (I'll have to swallow my pride and say that could also have been the mistake of over confidence) I would've been on my feet longer, and wouldn't have ate those shots. When I did create distance, I should've run. While this was going on, no one ran to my aid, they instead shut and locked the doors in fear, and a part of me didn't want to leave anyone else with those animals. Better me than anyone else. The view from the cameras showed 4 of them on me. The girl that got punched said there were more present. Had that mop shaft have been a baseball bat, or if one had a bottle or sharp object, I could be in the hospital right now, or exiting this earth. Luckily I made it out with a nasty shiner, or normal bums and bruises. The next day just felt like an MMA loss, but the phone calls I was getting from people that heard reminded me I'm lucky that's all it was, and this shit is never happening again. One fortunate thing though, is it was me, and even though I slipped in an impossible situation, I'd like to see someone who wasn't taught these concepts try to berimbola their way out of that

I've gotten my ass royally kicked on a number of occasions.

It happens.

[Ulsteryank]

To be fair most "sports only" BJJ guys are going to fuck up most people in a "self defense" situation. By "Self Defense" I mean the dumb fights you see people get in over dumb stuff. Not the in the mugging sort of "self defense".
I mean straight up not trolling way they will keep an untrained person off balance enough that they won't be able to through effective strikes even if they dive for something like deep half

This is true. Even an untrained athlete has better odds than an untrained person in a one on one scenario, but self-defence can cover that mugging scenario, or tough street kids, crazy people, or in my case when gypsies try to storm your local bar.

I guess while we're at it I'll just share this, so someone can learn from my fuck up. It reminds me of that old Jocko Willink video on martial arts (that was covered on here) before his podcast. In it he said something like, "when will you be attacked, today, tomorrow, three years, how ready can you be?" Well in our academy we start off each class with a self defence technique. There's an A class and a B class during the week, so you get two scenarios each week. Over here a lot of businesses take of two weeks from Christmas holiday, and Friday everyone finishes work for break is called "Black eye Friday" because everyone goes out and celebrates finally being off work, people are out for their Christmas parties, you have the once a year drinkers out because there's a reason why they don't normally drink, etc, so things happen. All month my Professor brought this up, preaching situational awareness. "If I'm having a beer in my house I can relax. It's 'silly season' so if you're out in town look who's around you, getting close to you, crossing the street, yadada." And we move on to the techniques, closing or creating distance to deal with threats, dealing with strikes, not going to the ground, what to do if you're tripped or dragged to the ground, dealing with strikes, not getting hit, getting to your feet, all basic stuff. I've even learnt this elsewhere, and in other martial arts.

Well last Friday, the day after Boxing Day, I was bumrushed by a group of gypos. They've been put out of the four towns leading to this one for violence and anti-social behaviour, and they haven't been around here in years. Apparently they had their caravan parked while they were drinking in the only bar they're allowed to, and heard the alarm on it going off, and decided to go apeshit. I walked out of our door after hearing some shouting and just saw a group charging me.....now before I get into it. I've been in street fights before. I compete in MMA. I've KOd people with my hands and feet(or shin). I'm a BJJ competitor. I'm a 4 striped Purple belt who in my last 3 comps got 2 golds and a bronze, didn't even train for the bronze one, and injured, so even though I train self-defence, I do compete. I have the confidence that if I'm in a street scenario(I have been in the past, including 2 attempted muggings) I can handle myself. The town I live in is a small one where everyone knows everyone. Usually at work I'm throwing out drunk rugby guys who I'm normally friendly with, and we'll have a beer next I see them and laugh about it, so I never feel at threat here. It's a small tight knit community.

Well this was the first time I've been attacked by these odds, a scenario I never thought I'd be in because I'd probably see it coming and either get out of it, or not let it get that far. But no, there's a group of strangers that grew up bareknuckle boxing charging me, and I fucked up what I was taught, and teach. Just gut reaction I doubled legged the first one that went for me. We always teach never to go to the ground, or go passed knee on belly for self defence. Out of habbit(we're currently training for a comp), and went into mount, and that split second where I was about to jump into knee on belly I had a mop shaft broken over me, and start eating steel toed boots to the face and head. After a brief moment of getting river danced on in the turtle, I remembered to cover up and get to my feet. The last place I felt a thud, I knee someone was on one leg and went for a single to both get him off me, and get to my feet, then it just felt like a mosh pit. I was just push kicking, threw a few strikes(have busted knuckled that were sore hitting pads last night with), eating a few back,and pushing until finally a girl(who got punched by one of them) said the cops were coming. One of the scum bags even tried taking a selfie with me before they ran back and high tailed in the caravan.

So I let my guard down. I should've noticed the caravan, and been on guard going outside. There's no way in hell I was going to not get jumped, but If I wouldn't have gone into mount (I'll have to swallow my pride and say that could also have been the mistake of over confidence) I would've been on my feet longer, and wouldn't have ate those shots. When I did create distance, I should've run. While this was going on, no one ran to my aid, they instead shut and locked the doors in fear, and a part of me didn't want to leave anyone else with those animals. Better me than anyone else. The view from the cameras showed 4 of them on me. The girl that got punched said there were more present. Had that mop shaft have been a baseball bat, or if one had a bottle or sharp object, I could be in the hospital right now, or exiting this earth. Luckily I made it out with a nasty shiner, or normal bums and bruises. The next day just felt like an MMA loss, but the phone calls I was getting from people that heard reminded me I'm lucky that's all it was, and this shit is never happening again. One fortunate thing though, is it was me, and even though I slipped in an impossible situation, I'd like to see someone who wasn't taught these concepts try to berimbola their way out of that

[W. Rabbit]

I think my point is? If a self defense focused school can survive in a very saturated market with world championships all around it...... Their is no need for this arrogance drama that is likely money motivated.......

Put another way, people have the right to practice the way they want. And that's a good thing. BJJ is diverse, and the best part of that is seen when the "I do jits for fun", "I do jits for medals", and "I do jits for the street" crews meet up and hug it out, with much much pummeling.

But this is the same with all arts, imho. There's a continuum of excellence, and a continuum of arrogance, and the best parts don't necessarily overlap. Judo has it, Jujutsu has it, CMA has it, TKD, Karate have it...it's definitely a BJJ problem, but not just a BJJ problem. It has the ability to infect any art, martial or otherwise. It's a respect for other people problem. And that goes for all arts. CMA people need to respect BJJ people and vice versa...within reason, obviously. I personally find it very, very hard to respect some Wing Chun people. Some, not all.