Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[goodlun]

But, you can't say Teddy Riner would "most certainly" eat either "his" lunch

I can and I will, Teddy Riner is a fucking beast unlike any other
The real question isn't if Roger can beat someone that is just silly as you put it as a GOAT thing,
I wonder how well say Nicholas Meregali would do, or Garry Tonon
I actually think Garry Tonon would be a very difficult challenge for Kimura.
Kron Gracie as well.


Careful with hero worship of the past, Mitsuyo Maeda most certainly made his name with a few works.

[BKR]

Do not forget Helio was a Brazilian fascist.

[goodlun]

I mean my favorite bit of tuggery:
In 1934, brothers Carlos, George and Helio Gracie spent a week in jail. The 3 Gracies had been accused of attacking a former challenger in the street, Manuel Rufino, who then had placed charges against the Gracie brothers.

[Holy Moment]

Eye-gouges.

That is all.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I mean my favorite bit of tuggery:
In 1934, brothers Carlos, George and Helio Gracie spent a week in jail. The 3 Gracies had been accused of attacking a former challenger in the street, Manuel Rufino, who then had placed charges against the Gracie brothers.

That's a half truth!

They attacked him with blunt objects.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Do not forget Helio was a Brazilian fascist.

Gracies are pretty divided right and left.

Renzo's father was held prisoner by the fascist military government,

and apparently tortured a bit,

for running arms or supplies of some kind,

to leftist revolutionary guerillas.

It was an effort, and favors called in,

to arrange his release.

Other Gracies are quite right wing.

[BKR]

I don't want to be BJJ "arrogant" but seems to me Kimura vs Roger goes to Roger.

The Kimura who beat Helio was past his prime.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The Kimura who beat Helio was past his prime.

He still had the potential for prime.

Traveling with a professional wrestling troupe was probably no where near the incredible rigor of his competition training routine while in Japan.

And, he was three years younger than Gracie.

Still, the man was no joke, while he drew breath.

[goodlun]

The Kimura who beat Helio was past his prime.

I mean I am going to BJJ Hell but Helio...... do I dare say it?
I don't know man I might get death threats.....
I am not sure if Helio is really a great measure of how good a grappler is just by beating him.

[goodlun]

He still had the potential for prime.

Traveling with a professional wrestling troupe was probably no where near the incredible rigor of his competition training routine while in Japan.

And, he was three years younger than Gracie.

Still, the man was no joke, while he drew breath.

Yeah I certainly wouldn't want to come off as saying Kimura isn't anything but a beast.
I am just being realistic if we want to compare him to Roger, once again I am also not sure if that is really a fair comparison for the point about Judo vs BJJ Newaza.
Some of the more middle of the road Professional BJJ guys might be a more fair comparison.
Andre Galvao? Is that a fair comparison?

[BKR]

I am careful with my kids that way. Son 1 is wrestling, starting at 16. So he is out skilled by kids who have wrestled since grade school. He still beats kids at JV level, tho. Varsity kids tho beat him, cause jacked 18 year olds who can wrestle.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah I certainly wouldn't want to come off as saying Kimura isn't anything but a beast.
I am just being realistic if we want to compare him to Roger, once again I am also not sure if that is really a fair comparison for the point about Judo vs BJJ Newaza.
Some of the more middle of the road Professional BJJ guys might be a more fair comparison.
Andre Galvao? Is that a fair comparison?

Andre Galvao could not submit Helio Gracie's grandson, Ryron.

So...not even a close comparison.

[goodlun]

Andre Galvao could not submit Helio Gracie's grandson, Ryron.

So...not even a close comparison.

Its incredible easy to forget both how Big and how Good Ryron Gracie is, and I would suggest that he is significantly better than Helio ever was as well.
I want to be clear I am not trying to shit talk Helio, he knew a lot, I know people that met him, that trained with him, and all that, he was a walking encyclopedia of grappling knowledge especially after training for a life time.
I mean I do actually have a lot of respect for him(well for his technical knowledge their are some lifestyle issues). Like I am not some punk kid like fuck that guy.
I am also trying to be realistic about his level at the time he fought Kimura vs a lot of the professional black belts we see today.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Its incredible easy to forget both how Big and how Good Ryron Gracie is, and I would suggest that he is significantly better than Helio ever was as well.
I want to be clear I am not trying to shit talk Helio, he knew a lot, I know people that met him, that trained with him, and all that, he was a walking encyclopedia of grappling knowledge especially after training for a life time.
I mean I do actually have a lot of respect for him(well for his technical knowledge their are some lifestyle issues). Like I am not some punk kid like fuck that guy.
I am also trying to be realistic about his level at the time he fought Kimura vs a lot of the professional black belts we see today.

Ryron and Rener are bigger than they look on video.

While traveling for one of the Mundials, I swung over to Rener's when all the controversy was about regarding the Gracie university.

(Unlike the people who bitched about it here, I am not a pussy, and scheduled a meeting to ask Rener to his face.)

I was immediately struck by two things as I waited for the class to end to have our meeting.

First, they taught a solid class.

Second, Rener and Ryron were a lot bigger than I thought.

All of a sudden, I was like, hmmm, maybe I won't try to put on a clinic with/on these guys...

Anyway, Rener gave some solid answers as to what he was about, and I left satisfied and somewhat impressed, actually.

[jnp]

All of you are asking the wrong question. The real question is, how would Osvaldo Fadda have faired against Kimura?

Just kidding, I find this type of speculation that has no chance of being answered little more than mental masturbation.