Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[W. Rabbit]

Wait Roger Gracie doesn't have a Judo rank? Man so many of them do .........

His Judo rank is 11.

Seriously, I know I've read this thread somewhere before.

Ah, here it is.

https://evolve-mma.com/blog/heres-wh...t-of-all-time/

[goodlun]

The question is not how skilled, technical, and athletic Helio was,

but how skilled, athletic, and technical the man

that easily beat him on the feet and on the ground using was.

Kimura and Roger Gracie were/are both masters of the basics.

Indeed. It's hard to say because we simply don't have enough footage of Kimura to watch and make a call on. We have stories, myth, and legend to go off of. Don't get me wrong Kimura was a master of his time, but in all these sorts of endeavors it's hard to not compare and contrast how much better modern athletes look vs the ones of the past. Roger has to his credit beaten modern athletes.
I certainly can't nor won't take anything away from Kimura, but the field he was playing in doesn't appear to be as sophisticated.

[Raycetpfl]

Wait Roger Gracie doesn't have a Judo rank? Man so many of them do .........

Judo Black Belt under an English Olympian. I forget his teachers name.

[W. Rabbit]

it's hard to not compare and contrast how much better modern athletes look vs the ones of the past.

This is Yokoyama Sakujiro, a Judo champ from 1886. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he could kick some modern ass, easily, even at modern "elite" levels.

[goodlun]

This is Yokoyama Sakujiro, a Judo champ from 1886. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he could kick some modern ass, easily, even at modern "elite" levels.

Teddy Riner would eat his lunch homie

[Raycetpfl]

This is Yokoyama Sakujiro, a Judo champ from 1886. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he could kick some modern ass, easily, even at modern "elite" levels.

He's doing the trick where you push your biceps up by having your hands under them while your arms are crossed.



He is not.

[goodlun]

He's doing the trick where you push your biceps up by having your hands under them while your arms are crossed.

A really good example of this is if you Google image search Farmer Burns.
Where you can see normal images of him and images of him doing this trick.

[Ulsteryank]

One thing about Roger Gracie, and his father, who got his Blackbelt from Rolls, is they're big into self-defence. There are Blackbelts that sneak into the back of Roger's academy(obviously not his students) to watch the self-defence techniques because they don't know it. This is not a joke. I think we're the only academy in Ireland that teaches self-defence.

BJJ players are arrogant if they think they couldn't get their ass handed to them in a street fight if they don't train it, competitors or not. We need to remember how this started.

[W. Rabbit]

A really good example of this is if you Google image search Farmer Burns.
Where you can see normal images of him and images of him doing this trick.

19th century judoka champion...and he needs to fake his biceps?

See, I think this is exactly what Gael Coadic meant. 21st century hindsight is making you criticize a 19th century judoka champ, for what? A GOAT contest where it's just an opinion?

[Bneterasedmynam]

He's doing the trick where you push your biceps up by having your hands under them while your arms are crossed.



He is not.

Also known as body by science. You can't compare a modern athlete to one from the late 1800's. Modern athletes have the benefits of a whole slew of pharmaceuticals to choose from.

[Dung Beatles]

Teddy Riner would eat his lunch homie

Probably but this guy had muscles like that without the benefit of modern training which probably meant it was acquired through long hard and inefficient physical labor. The youngster in that photo was strong as a mule and likely kicked just as hard.

[Dung Beatles]

Also known as body by science. You can't compare a modern athlete to one from the late 1800's. Modern athletes have the benefits of a whole slew of pharmaceuticals to choose from.

Exactly. This was a guy that ate whatever was put in front of him and had no idea what a carb was.

[goodlun]

19th century judoka champion...and he needs to fake his biceps?

See, I think this is exactly what Gael Coadic meant. 21st century hindsight is making you criticize a 19th century judoka champ, for what? A GOAT contest where it's just an opinion?

I didn't critizie the man, I just pointed out the fact that Teddy Riner would eat his lunch. He most certainly would.
I didn't actually say anything about his biceps, though I did say a way to collaborate what Rayce was saying about his posture.
I was on my phone waiting on someone at work so I didn't have time to post pics then.
but here:



Truth is modern Athletes are almost always going to be better than the "GOAT"
Roger has beaten many of the best of the best that are still actively competing.
Roger has competed successfully in almost every context that BJJ is applied.

I for one am seriously not shit talking any of the old Judoka, but the fact that I am irrelevant towards Helio should give you an idea that I am serious about the concept of modern > old athletes.
Do any of us "Know" for a fact nope, but evidence sort of suggest.

Show me a 4 min mile from before 1954, could have happened human history is long and mostly unrecorded.
We now have people in High School breaking it, still extremely rare, but it happens. (Something like 2 people?)
Simple fact is modern athletes benefit from better training modalities, better nutrition, a larger pool of people, better sports psychology, and a host of other things.

[goodlun]

Probably but this guy had muscles like that without the benefit of modern training which probably meant it was acquired through long hard and inefficient physical labor. The youngster in that photo was strong as a mule and likely kicked just as hard.

Are you making a point that is some how germane to the fact that Roger would likely beat Kimura?

[Dr. Gonzo]

I didn't critizie the man, I just pointed out the fact that Teddy Riner would eat his lunch. He most certainly would.
I didn't actually say anything about his biceps, though I did say a way to collaborate what Rayce was saying about his posture.
I was on my phone waiting on someone at work so I didn't have time to post pics then.
but here:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18403[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18404[/ATTACH]

Truth is modern Athletes are almost always going to be better than the "GOAT"
Roger has beaten many of the best of the best that are still actively competing.
Roger has competed successfully in almost every context that BJJ is applied.

I for one am seriously not shit talking any of the old Judoka, but the fact that I am irrelevant towards Helio should give you an idea that I am serious about the concept of modern > old athletes.
Do any of us "Know" for a fact nope, but evidence sort of suggest.

Show me a 4 min mile from before 1954, could have happened human history is long and mostly unrecorded.
We now have people in High School breaking it, still extremely rare, but it happens. (Something like 2 people?)
Simple fact is modern athletes benefit from better training modalities, better nutrition, a larger pool of people, better sports psychology, and a host of other things.

Pfft...

He was no Danny Hodge.