Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[jnp]

This post was better the first time, when I made it.

[Devil]

Boxing and kickboxing in particular have a high rate of Champions starting late in life compared to other sports. I would guess this is because of natural athleticism,potential striking power,reach and "chin" being largely genetic.
You're born with the dim mak or you're not.
Wrestling is a hard one to gauge in the USA because most of the best heavier framed guys stop wrestling in high school and just play foot ball in college. Ray Lewis was a four year FL highschool state champ. I dont believe he wrestled in college by choice.


Cultivating general athleticism in children is paramount for any sport. I can catch an athletic,intrested,committed 15 year old up to another 15 year old thats been training since he was 10 very quickly.

I knew I’d hear from you. It grinds your gears when I talk about this because you’re late to the game and want to be world champ.

There’s nothing difficult to gauge about wrestling. First, the heavier weights are some of the weakest weight classes in high school because there aren’t many legit strong, giant athletes in high school. The heavies are more often than not fat bodies. Look at where the majority of good competition lies, in the lighter weights. Kids who have been wrestling since they were tiny dominate the late comers.

And if you say you can catch a 15 year old noob up to someone who has five years of training on him, I’m calling bullshit. You can do that if the more experienced kid is lazy, has been trained like shit, isn’t really interested, is physically weaker, less intelligent, etc. But that’s not apples to apples. If you take a motivated, well trained kid and put him up against an equal noob, he’s going to take his lunch money for a LONG ass time.

[Raycetpfl]

"very good Newaza for a Judo school."

This is the only thing I have an issue with. It almost sounds like "she hits hard, for a girl"or something similar. Like an inherent bias that BJJ is just naturally going to be better for groundwork. I know that's a common perception, but how true is it really?

It was Kimura who broke Helio's arm, after all. Maybe that age of Judo is in the past, but it was still just Judo.

Blue belts run rough shot on judo black belts(national champs and greater excluded) on the ground. Its a fact.
Roger Gracie would likely tap kimura out in 60 seconds or so. He would do the same thing to Rickson imho.
The technical level , size and strength has risen of our best in Jiu-Jitsu since that match up.

Hell, Cyborg,Buchecha, Vinny Magalhaes and others are just next level fighters that could do the same thing. Roger wouldn't even need to answer the bat signal.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think all martial arts do.

You won't get much more arrogant than Japanese jujutsu throughout the last 500 years. The art of an elite warrior class, and an antique of cultural elitism at its finest.

I think the arrogance just goes along with the whole concept of fighting art, which also explains why some instructors stress humility above all else, to combat the tendency for one's ego to grow with skill or victory.

The Samurai, while they were fighting, were largely ignorant, savage, backwards, often illiterate, and behaved little different than crude bandits.

It was after the "Samurai" were no longer a fighting class, but bureaucratic administrators in nature, that all the literacy and poetry, etc, etc came into play.

Two different kinds of elitists, to be sure.

One set, ignorant thugs.

The other, bureaucrats, just like bureaucrats throughout history have enjoyed the smell of their own farts.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Roger Gracie would likely tap kimura out in 60 seconds or so. He would do the same thing to Rickson imho.

Oh really....

You barbershop bullshitter.

Of course, we'll never know, but I would take that bet against your claim.

[Raycetpfl]

The heavies play football and basket ball because they are more popular and aren't tiny weak midgets and they have a shot at millions instead of just cauliflower ear.


Kids suck,
A 10 year old training isnt the same as a 15 year old training.
That 5 year head start is really only about 1.5 years.

[Devil]

Blue belts run rough shot on judo black belts(national champs and greater excluded) on the ground. Its a fact.
Roger Gracie would likely tap kimura out in 60 seconds or so. He would do the same thing to Rickson imho.
The technical level , size and strength has risen of our best in Jiu-Jitsu since that match up.

Hell, Cyborg,Buchecha, Vinny Magalhaes and others are just next level fighters that could do the same thing. Roger wouldn't even need to answer the bat signal.

Exactly. It’s completely fucking true. It’s true at the hobbyist level and it’s true at the high competitive level.

I’m not saying average joe blue belt is going to destroy an Olympic judo champ on the ground. But that same judo champ is going to have no answer for a high level BJJ competitor on the ground. None.

I got so much enjoyment out of watching my kid in Judo class when he was a 15 year old, 130 lb. BJJ green belt tapping out 220 lb. black belt judo instructors. That shit brought joy to my heart. And it also brings joy to my heart when he tosses a BJJ black belt with a Judo throw. Cross training FTW.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Exactly. It’s completely fucking true. It’s true at the hobbyist level and it’s true at the high competitive level.

I’m not saying average joe blue belt is going to destroy an Olympic judo champ on the ground. But that same judo champ is going to have no answer for a high level BJJ competitor on the ground. None.

I got so much enjoyment out of watching my kid in Judo class when he was a 15 year old, 130 lb. BJJ green belt tapping out 220 lb. black belt judo instructors. That shit brought joy to my heart. And it also brings joy to my heart when he tosses a BJJ black belt with a Judo throw. Cross training FTW.

I am sure it does.

And, I am sure that they aren't being at all restrained and careful with him because he is a kid...

And most black belts in either art are trained to have a responsibility for not hurting the kids they train with, or train etc.

[Raycetpfl]

Oh really....

You barbershop bullshitter.

Of course, we'll never know, but I would take that bet against your claim.

I am being dramatic with catching Rickson in 60 seconds, but he gets the W.

[Devil]

The heavies play football and basket ball because they are more popular and aren't tiny weak midgets and they have a shot at millions instead of just cauliflower ear.



Kids suck,
A 10 year old training isnt the same as a 15 year old training.
That 5 year head start is really only about 1.5 years.

I know why heavies play other sports. That’s not the point at all.

I think you underestimate kids. Not all ten year olds are picking their noses and staring off into space. There are absolutely ten year olds who can focus and train properly, and they’re going to fuck those noobs up. They can be trained just as effectively as adults. No, not always. But that’s why every kid doesn’t grow up to be champ, right? That’s exactly what elite means.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I am being dramatic with catching Rickson in 60 seconds, but he gets the W.

I don't know about that...

Here we go...

[Devil]

I am sure it does.

And, I am sure that they aren't being at all restrained and careful with him because he is a kid...

And most black belts in either art are trained to have a responsibility for not hurting the kids they train with, or train etc.

I know enough to know when someone is going easy and when they’re going balls out. I’ve literally seen big Judo black belts red faced, huffing and puffing, fighting with all their might not to get tapped by a kid in front of their instructor.

Now, that was when they started on the ground. I know he wasn’t about to throw one of those big motherfuckers.

[Raycetpfl]

Kids that stay serious are few and far between. A 15 or 16 year old that comes to a dojo on their own accord is far more likely to become a black belt and is there because they're into it. Almost all 10 year olds are in fact picking their nose and staring off into space.
The Wayne Gretzky's , Rutulo Twins(sp?) and Jordan Burroughs of the world are few and far between. They exist though.

[Devil]

Kids that stay serious are few and far between. A 15 or 16 year old that comes to a dojo on their own accord is far more likely to become a black belt and is there because they're into it. Almost all 10 year olds are in fact picking their nose and staring off into space.
The Wayne Gretzky's , Rutulo Twins(sp?) and Jordan Burroughs of the world are few and far between. They exist though.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I know enough to know when someone is going easy and when they’re going balls out. I’ve literally seen big Judo black belts red faced, huffing and puffing, fighting with all their might not to get tapped by a kid in front of their instructor.

Now, that was when they started on the ground. I know he wasn’t about to throw one of those big motherfuckers.

I remember grappling Big Willy the Cuban Judo Black Belt when I was in my early 20's.

I was doing BJJ things, that were not legal in Judo.

Willy took it with good graces, and good humor, noting each time, that the techniques I was doing were not legal in Judo.

Then one day, I saw someone irritate Big Willy, and he lifted them up off the ground by their lapel and then whipped into a soto makikomi, breaking some of their ribs, and possible their sternum.

Some of the other players managed to get him into a car, and off to the ER he went.

And then I realized, Big Willy was really being quite nice as I thought I was handily beating him on the ground.

Probably because I was a young kid, in my early 20's and he knew I was full of piss and beans, and I didn't know any better.