Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[Devil]

To be fair most "sports only" BJJ guys are going to fuck up most people in a "self defense" situation. By "Self Defense" I mean the dumb fights you see people get in over dumb stuff. Not the in the mugging sort of "self defense".
I mean straight up not trolling way they will keep an untrained person off balance enough that they won't be able to through effective strikes even if they dive for something like deep half

I think that is mostly true, eventually. But here’s where the difference in mindset comes into play.....A lot of self-defense focused jiu jitsu schools have the mindset that you shouldn’t be a blue belt until you can defend yourself against most untrained attackers. That’s a GOOD fucking mindset, in my opinion. You shouldn’t train for 6 fucking years and have a purple belt before you’re reasonably equipped to defend yourself against an untrained attacker.

[goodlun]

There's pummeling, and then there's pummeling.

I mean that is all true, but let's not act like sport guys don't ramp up their intensity when needed. I mean some don't some do choke under the pressure situations like competition.
But they still are going to do a lot better than most people that don't train or people that do train but not with aliveness.

[goodlun]

I think some of the "problem" in "sport" BJJ might simply come down to White/Blue belts focusing on counter BJJ instead of good grappling fundamentals because they are looking for a shortcut to win at BJJ.
Good grappling fundamentals will take care of the 80% of "Self Defense"

[Devil]

I think some of the "problem" in "sport" BJJ might simply come down to White/Blue belts focusing on counter BJJ instead of good grappling fundamentals because they are looking for a shortcut to win at BJJ.
Good grappling fundamentals will take care of the 80% of "Self Defense"

[W. Rabbit]

I mean that is all true, but let's not act like sport guys don't ramp up their intensity when needed. I mean some don't some do choke under the pressure situations like competition.
But they still are going to do a lot better than most people that don't train or people that do train but not with aliveness.

One of the examples I was shown was in fighting for grips, which is obviously a big part of sport BJJ, but totally changes if you're in a brawl with another person, especially what HM refers to as the "300lb trucker" use case.

All that time and patience and mental chess you see in high level comps goes out the fucking window when someone is just slamming you over and over. The Gracies have always known that because of their roots. But I always see Devil's point here, a lot of BJJ folks think a street fight is going to end up like Gracie vs. Severn, and they won't see the (metaphorical) anal rape coming.

[Raycetpfl]

I just always assumed that it was like the "Karelin Lift" or tbr "Gable Grip", that Von Flu just made it famous as the first person to do it in MMA.

I mean old wrestling manuals(pre Dan Gable) call the Gable Grip, the Gordian Knot.

Nevermind various odd club names for things.

The name is less important, the point is eddie and joe had never seen it before.
Go watch the after fight interview and Joe Rogan's commentary during the fight. He and Eddie Bravo who was in his ear via the production truck had no idea what they were looking at. They were both skilled jiu jitsu fighters at this point but had never covered the Helio basics/combatives curriculum.

[goodlun]

I mean all I know is this, I am fucking terrible at BJJ like the fucking worse. But if you take anyone that is with in reason the same size as me and with in reason the same level of athleticism, but completely untrained and you start then in Mount on me. It's a matter of seconds until I am up on top and they be having no time to be dropping bombs unless they want their face to be planted in the ground. Now I can't 100% say this would be true with a real adrenaline dump or if I would freeze up or not. But I have been in Mount with true beginners enough times to know they are completely shity at sitting on top of someone.

[Raycetpfl]

One of the examples I was shown was in fighting for grips, which is obviously a big part of sport BJJ, but totally changes if you're in a brawl with another person, especially what HM refers to as the "300lb trucker" use case.

No it isn't. Its easy once you're in grappling range. Go look at world star videos. Look how many morons wander into grappling range running their mouth or lack the power to stop a grappler just walking through their shots. The hardest choice is deciding between Tani otoshi and Ura Nage.

All that time and patience and mental chess you see in high level comps goes out the fucking window when someone is just slamming you over and over.

In a street fight? No it doesn't. Its like wrestling with a first day white belt. Unless they are also a skilled grappler.

[Michael Tzadok]

The name is less important, the point is eddie and joe had never seen it before.
Go watch the after fight interview and Joe Rogan's commentary during the fight. He and Eddie Bravo who was in his ear via the production truck had no idea what they were looking at. They were both skilled jiu jitsu fighters at this point but had never covered the Helio basics/combatives curriculum.

Ok that is crazy. I learned it as a white belt. I learned to call it Von Flu as a blue belt. That was mostly so I could shout out what to do to competitors on the mat.

Not knowing it, that is just crazy.

Then again I've met black belts that didnt know the choke the Gracies call "Nut Cracker". Which is also one of my favorites.

[goodlun]

Time for the best mount stupid statement ever but:

All "high level" BJJ is, is fighting to be in position.
Their typically isn't much of a fight to get into position against someone that doesn't know how to fight for position.

[W. Rabbit]

No it isn't. Its easy once you're in grappling range. Go look at world star videos. Look how many morons wander into grappling range running their mouth or lack the power to stop a grappler just walking through their shots. The hardest choice is deciding between Tani otoshi and Ura Nage.

In a street fight? No it doesn't. Its like wrestling with a first day white belt. Unless they are also a skilled grappler.

I forgot you are not just an avid competitor, you are also a skilled, undefeated underground pitfighter who would waste every 300 lb trucker who tried to oil check you.

Are you sure you're not a Gracie? Ancestry.com DNA test, dude.

[Devil]

I mean all I know is this, I am fucking terrible at BJJ like the fucking worse. But if you take anyone that is with in reason the same size as me and with in reason the same level of athleticism, but completely untrained and you start then in Mount on me. It's a matter of seconds until I am up on top and they be having no time to be dropping bombs unless they want their face to be planted in the ground. Now I can't 100% say this would be true with a real adrenaline dump or if I would freeze up or not. But I have been in Mount with true beginners enough times to know they are completely shity at sitting on top of someone.

[Raycetpfl]

I forgot you are not just an avid competitor, you are also a skilled, undefeated underground pitfighter who would waste every 300 lb trucker who tried to oil check you.

Are you sure you're not a Gracie? Ancestry.com DNA test, dude.

I am someone who makes 6 figures but bounces anyway cause yolking up assholes is fun for me.

[Raycetpfl]

Then again I've met black belts that didnt know the choke the Gracies call "Nut Cracker". Which is also one of my favorites.

How to make friends and influence people.

[W. Rabbit]

I am someone who makes 6 figures but bounces anyway cause yolking up assholes is fun for me.

Did you mean to say "yoking"?