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Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

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  • hungryjoe
    replied
    It is good the word gets out sooner than later. Ball gag's and cat o'nines are optional.

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    All of grappling is about making the other person so annoyed, uncomfortable, in pain, distressed, and disgusted that they want to quit, or have no choice but to quit.

    So, the rule of thumb is to be a dick in the right dose to get the job at hand done.

    Sometimes the rule of thumb is to be such a dick that they never want to try you or challenge you again, or are unable to effectively.
    That all makes sense on teh mat, but Gael Coadic's point was more about off the mat, particularly the disdain some competitive-minded folks have for non-competitors (which is just shitty elitist behavior towards undeserving people), and the disdain some in BJJ have in general for martial arts other than BJJ they've never trained in, which I thought was a dying thing but apparently not if you happen to sift through some youth BJJ Youtuber videos (not that you should, they're terrible in general).

    He writes that of the multiple arts he trains, he only sees this sort of thing in BJJ, which we know is bullshit because BJJ doesn't come close to the elitist delusions in certain TMA schools that train dead.

    This is kind of a central Bullshido trope, too, the fine line between valid criticism and unnecessary bigotry. In fact, there was once a video sticky here attached to the concept.

    "Reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks". It's like they wrote this for you.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 1/06/2020 2:39pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • Devil
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    I do tend to ramble.

    I am of the opposite school of It is Fake,

    where I drift and wander on whatever breeze carries me at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    I do tend to ramble.

    I am of the opposite school of It is Fake,

    where I drift and wander on whatever breeze carries me at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Devil
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    All of grappling is about making the other person so annoyed, uncomfortable, in pain, distressed, and disgusted that they want to quit, or have no choice but to quit.

    So, the rule of thumb is to be a dick in the right dose to get the job at hand done.

    Sometimes the rule of thumb is to be such a dick that they never want to try you or challenge you again, or are unable to effectively.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    All of grappling is about making the other person so annoyed, uncomfortable, in pain, distressed, and disgusted that they want to quit, or have no choice but to quit.

    So, the rule of thumb is to be a dick in the right dose to get the job at hand done.

    Sometimes the rule of thumb is to be such a dick that they never want to try you or challenge you again, or are unable to effectively.

    Leave a comment:


  • Devil
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    He makes the argument that nobody stays the baddest MF forever, and that newcomers should take note of the veterans of the art who did not spend waste their time openly denigrating other alive arts. Even dead ones were invited to compete with the BJJ legends.

    The eldest redbelts aren't remotely where they were at half their ages. The arrogance he's talking about in the article is not respecting just belts, imo, but keeping respect in the sport and eliminating the "BJJihad Effect" we both know exists and makes some BJJ people talk like total morons, especially if it's the only art they've ever trained.

    Leave a comment:


  • Devil
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

    I'm basing this on USA Wrestling, and NFL football. Both sports have taken the stance that single sport specialization too early leads to premature peaking and is ultimately detrimental to the long term success of the athlete.

    Now yes, they will have to start young enough... but at the same time I'm not sure that the newer trend of highly specialized child athletes is the future either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Yeah but even without "belts" their is still a "need" for some sort of ranking for a couple of reasons both of which highlight how silly belts are.
    Segregation of competitors into the right brackets
    Certificating people for instruction
    The really funny part is those are completely different things being handled by one system right now.
    It would seem to me that we have competition segmentation by weight, age, sex type, and ruleset.

    Ruleset segregation can be as varied as Judo, Greco, Freestyle, IBJJF style rules, Sub only, Combat Jiu-Jitsu, Sport Sambo, Combat Sambo, and MMA.

    Or can be Sub grappling beginner (no slams, heel hooks, or twisting face / neck locks), and Expert (no holds or throws barred).

    Instruction certification by ruleset seems simple enough and should be separate from athletic performance in competition, although competition excellence history is usually a plus.

    I hate when people get all movie magic / ninja master about "black belts" etc.

    I also find it annoying when purple belts, or even new black belts, get puffy in the chesty about their expertise.

    Humans are really socially ridiculous about hierarchies, and how they are perceived in social hierarchies, and hero worship.

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Devil View Post
    But at the end of the day, being the baddest motherfucker on the block and putting the most dudes to sleep on the mat is the best measuring stick for respect in BJJ. And guys who use their BJJ to win actual fights deserve the most respect of all. Demian Maia has accomplished more in jiu jitsu and deserves more respect than Buchecha. That’s the way I see it.
    He makes the argument that nobody stays the baddest MF forever, and that newcomers should take note of the veterans of the art who did not spend waste their time openly denigrating other alive arts. Even dead ones were invited to compete with the BJJ legends.

    The eldest redbelts aren't remotely where they were at half their ages. The arrogance he's talking about in the article is not respecting just belts, imo, but keeping respect in the sport and eliminating the "BJJihad Effect" we both know exists and makes some BJJ people talk like total morons, especially if it's the only art they've ever trained.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 1/06/2020 2:10pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    Belt ranks, except to motivate kids, are damn silly things.

    I guess we could say to motivate adults, too, but I still find the idea damn silly.
    Yeah but even without "belts" their is still a "need" for some sort of ranking for a couple of reasons both of which highlight how silly belts are.
    Segregation of competitors into the right brackets
    Certificating people for instruction
    The really funny part is those are completely different things being handled by one system right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by Devil View Post
    Anyway, some other thoughts on the OP....

    Is this dude forgetting that BJJ is a sport BUILT on arrogance? What the fuck is he even talking about?
    Well, a lot of these guys decry sports BJJ.
    They want to talk about how their stuff is for fighting or Self Defense.
    They want to set the narrative that new school is soft.
    Blah blah blah blah.
    The problem is the sport side of things is very narrow on top with only a few places really attracting high level competitors.
    Or more accurate BJJ has a lot more "professional" players now and their are places where these guys are training and it's only a few gyms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    Belt ranks, except to motivate kids, are damn silly things.

    I guess we could say to motivate adults, too, but I still find the idea damn silly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

    I'm basing this on USA Wrestling, and NFL football. Both sports have taken the stance that single sport specialization too early leads to premature peaking and is ultimately detrimental to the long term success of the athlete.

    Now yes, they will have to start young enough... but at the same time I'm not sure that the newer trend of highly specialized child athletes is the future either.
    Again, you are making common sense points.

    How dare you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by Devil View Post
    I read the article. I’m not suggesting your statistics are wrong. I trust your due diligence. I just think your statistics aren’t that meaningful.

    First, my statement was in reference to people who started at 20. You’re talking about 12 or older. There’s a fuckton of difference in 12 and 20. There are a shit ton of champions on your list who started as young teens, which is different from people starting at 20 years old. I also strongly suspect that the average age will fall as the sport matures.

    My personal belief is that kids don’t get much out of training before age 10 or so. That’s just my opinion. 10 and 12 aren’t that far apart. So your statistics aren’t really a good argument against the point I’m making.

    Do you remember when basketball was young and it was populated by white dudes who worked second jobs? That’s where jiu jitsu is competitively right now, more or less. It is an immature sport. Assuming the sport continues to grow, the days of dudes beginning their training as grown ass men and going on to become champions are numbered.
    How dare you and I agree in a confrontational manner.

    Although there will of course always be outliers, and cross over athletes from other grappling sport rulesets.

    Leave a comment:

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