Is BJJ "Arrogance" ruining BJJ?

[BKR]

Again, you are making common sense points.

How dare you.

Let's move this to the BS discord server, we need their maturity and wisdom.

[BKR]

Compared to judo and wrestling, BJJ is incredibly immature as a competitive sport.

It is IMO same as judo in USA. An obscure, niche sport.

Plus BJJ operates mostly like a private for profit business.

[hungryjoe]

Yeah, the Tokyo police two on one arm restraint and various other forearm manipulation techniques don't work on those mutants.

Mutant forearms.

[BKR]

or a more real world example:
Travis Stevens, now before Travis Stevens cross trained he was very capable of out grappling Hobbyist BJJ Black Belts, and even some lower level competitive BJJ Black Belts.
But to compete at the level he wants to be able to compete at he had to take his Olympic Level work ethic and go see one of the better coaches in the game.
His game was good, so good it took only 18 months to get recognized as a BJJ Black Belt from an instructor that doesn't hand out black belts like they are candy.
So yeah their is a ton of cross over, and yes you can get get at ground work in Judo.
Lets not act like that is the norm. If you walk into a rec center Judo club your not likely to see very high level ground work.

Travis is on another plane of existence.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Judo teaches positioning. It is focused differently than BJJ.

Here is a partially true stereotype for you:

Many Judo players move well on their feet, but try to become immovable "rocks" on the ground.

And many BJJ players move well on the ground, but try to become immovable "rocks" on their feet.

The best players fluidly move on the feet or the ground,

and this is the synthesis of the best Judo and BJJ have to offer.

[BKR]

Okay I have people that know where I have done Judo in this thread that will 100% back me up on this.
I have done Judo at a Judo school with very good Newaza for a Judo school.
I can confidently say that the average blue belt is going to give a Judo black belt from that school a run for their money.
That school had high standards for Judo Black Belts.
The owner of that Schools Daughter who went to the Olympics two times, studied BJJ to improve on her Newaza and is now a purple belt in BJJ.

The reverse is less true for me, as in I have never been to a BJJ school who is focusing on 50% takedowns I am sure they are out there and I am sure that those takedowns are the mirror image of what I was talking about with the Judo groundwork.

At the high level and this is very generalized I don't think of Judo as throwing and BJJ and ground work.

I think of Judo as teaching Tricks & BJJ teaching Position.

Judo teaches positioning. It is focused differently than BJJ.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I remember him doing that in his prime. The Apple was first thought in my mind when you first mentioned his name.

Yeah, the Tokyo police two on one arm restraint and various other forearm manipulation techniques don't work on those mutants.

[hungryjoe]

Yeah....
Here is champion wrestler and boxer Danny Hodge juicing apples with his hands at the age of 77 with no trickery required:

I remember him doing that in his prime. The Apple was first thought in my mind when you first mentioned his name.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah but could Danny Hodge do this:
Hang himself?
I am sure their is some trickery in that, their almost always is.

Yeah....
Here is champion wrestler and boxer Danny Hodge juicing apples with his hands at the age of 77 with no trickery required:

[goodlun]

Pfft...

He was no Danny Hodge.

Yeah but could Danny Hodge do this:
Hang himself?
https://lastwordonprowrestling.com/w...k-strength.jpg

I am sure their is some trickery in that, their almost always is.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I didn't critizie the man, I just pointed out the fact that Teddy Riner would eat his lunch. He most certainly would.
I didn't actually say anything about his biceps, though I did say a way to collaborate what Rayce was saying about his posture.
I was on my phone waiting on someone at work so I didn't have time to post pics then.
but here:
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Truth is modern Athletes are almost always going to be better than the "GOAT"
Roger has beaten many of the best of the best that are still actively competing.
Roger has competed successfully in almost every context that BJJ is applied.

I for one am seriously not shit talking any of the old Judoka, but the fact that I am irrelevant towards Helio should give you an idea that I am serious about the concept of modern > old athletes.
Do any of us "Know" for a fact nope, but evidence sort of suggest.

Show me a 4 min mile from before 1954, could have happened human history is long and mostly unrecorded.
We now have people in High School breaking it, still extremely rare, but it happens. (Something like 2 people?)
Simple fact is modern athletes benefit from better training modalities, better nutrition, a larger pool of people, better sports psychology, and a host of other things.

Pfft...

He was no Danny Hodge.

[goodlun]

Probably but this guy had muscles like that without the benefit of modern training which probably meant it was acquired through long hard and inefficient physical labor. The youngster in that photo was strong as a mule and likely kicked just as hard.

Are you making a point that is some how germane to the fact that Roger would likely beat Kimura?

[goodlun]

19th century judoka champion...and he needs to fake his biceps?

See, I think this is exactly what Gael Coadic meant. 21st century hindsight is making you criticize a 19th century judoka champ, for what? A GOAT contest where it's just an opinion?

I didn't critizie the man, I just pointed out the fact that Teddy Riner would eat his lunch. He most certainly would.
I didn't actually say anything about his biceps, though I did say a way to collaborate what Rayce was saying about his posture.
I was on my phone waiting on someone at work so I didn't have time to post pics then.
but here:



Truth is modern Athletes are almost always going to be better than the "GOAT"
Roger has beaten many of the best of the best that are still actively competing.
Roger has competed successfully in almost every context that BJJ is applied.

I for one am seriously not shit talking any of the old Judoka, but the fact that I am irrelevant towards Helio should give you an idea that I am serious about the concept of modern > old athletes.
Do any of us "Know" for a fact nope, but evidence sort of suggest.

Show me a 4 min mile from before 1954, could have happened human history is long and mostly unrecorded.
We now have people in High School breaking it, still extremely rare, but it happens. (Something like 2 people?)
Simple fact is modern athletes benefit from better training modalities, better nutrition, a larger pool of people, better sports psychology, and a host of other things.

[Dung Beatles]

Also known as body by science. You can't compare a modern athlete to one from the late 1800's. Modern athletes have the benefits of a whole slew of pharmaceuticals to choose from.

Exactly. This was a guy that ate whatever was put in front of him and had no idea what a carb was.

[Dung Beatles]

Teddy Riner would eat his lunch homie

Probably but this guy had muscles like that without the benefit of modern training which probably meant it was acquired through long hard and inefficient physical labor. The youngster in that photo was strong as a mule and likely kicked just as hard.