The Top 5 Combat Systems

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'm not aware of the happening, maybe BKR is. Can you point me to an example?

Can you still recognize common scents like peanut butter?

Let's attack the proposition from another angle.

Even without leg grabs and leg pick ups, counter attacks often produce more scores in Judo tournament than attacks.

When you factor in leg grabs making counter attacks even more effective, a walk on wrestler who puts on a gi top, can punish Judokas who turn their backs to execute a throw readily.

Which of course was a standard strategy for wrestler Judokas from the soviet bloc countries...

Banning leg attacks reduces the ability of walk on wrestlers to easily counter classical Judo back turning throws and then going for pinning ippon.

And it eliminates the reality that a walk on American style football player in top shape can tackle people whether or not they or their opponent are wearing a gi, and whether or not they or their opponent have Olympic caliber Judo in the broader sense.

Not that every tackle will work, but leg shots are pretty damn effective, especially when performed technically correct by a serious athletic specimen.

[NeilG]

Or the fact that an athletically strong player armed only with a perfected double leg takedown can win Judo matches against Judo Olympic gold medalists when leg shots and tackles are allowed.

I'm not aware of the happening, maybe BKR is. Can you point me to an example?

[Dr. Gonzo]

That's a common misconception. It's not true. The rules were changed to prevent people from stalling out with leg grabs and going for wins by small points or penalties. Wrestling style single legs and double legs have never been that much of a factor in judo that they needed to make any rules about it.

Sure, sure, keep telling yourself that.

It had nothing to do with wrestling and wrestlers infiltrating Judo, and Judoka adopting wrestling techniques, taking emphasis off of the classical Judo throw curriculum.

Or the fact that an athletically strong player armed only with a perfected double leg takedown can win Judo matches against Judo Olympic gold medalists when leg shots and tackles are allowed.

Nothing to do with that whatsoever...

[Sovvolf]

You could probably take on a vast majority of TKD or Karate black belts with 6 months of Boxing training. To be honest without at least a rudimentary teaching or understanding of boxing or grappling in any art that's claiming any sort of self defence applicability is likely a waste of time.

[jnp]

Boxing is a contender for highest best bang for the buck training out there.

[NeilG]

Wrestlers were the reason judo changed the rules on leg attacks around a decade ago.

That's a common misconception. It's not true. The rules were changed to prevent people from stalling out with leg grabs and going for wins by small points or penalties. Wrestling style single legs and double legs have never been that much of a factor in judo that they needed to make any rules about it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Um, I disagree. Granted, almost any martial art has a few techniques that are not suitable to a no holds barred fight.

The footwork and counterpunching techniques taught by boxing are excellent when it comes to being applicable to real world altercations.

Boxing is a contender for highest best bang for the buck training out there.

[jnp]

As for boxing, just about anything unique to that sport is idiotic to do in a real fight. You can train boxing to hone certain skills, but as a system it's perceptible to getting kneed in the face (silly head movement which only makes sense if you can only punch), low kicked to oblivion, etc.

Um, I disagree. Granted, almost any martial art has a few techniques that are not suitable to a no holds barred fight.

The footwork and counterpunching techniques taught by boxing are excellent when it comes to being applicable to real world altercations.

[jnp]

This, so much this. The ability to slip punches while counterpunching is one of the most under valued skill sets in modern striking systems.

[Sovvolf]

As for boxing, just about anything unique to that sport is idiotic to do in a real fight. You can train boxing to hone certain skills, but as a system it's perceptible to getting kneed in the face (silly head movement which only makes sense if you can only punch), low kicked to oblivion, etc.

Side question and one that pops up often when you start throwing this out there but how many real fights have you actually been in? How are we defining real fight here by the way?

I mean you're not wrong. Ducking like that can lead you to getting kneed in the face and I've actually been the victim of it (damn hurt) but I mean that was an happy accident of me ducking just as he was throwing a body knee and paying for it... Though a well thrown upper cut would have also landed in the same situation so most experienced boxers are fair aware that ducking leaves them vulnerable to something and aren't going just stick there waiting to get twatted in the face.

[hungryjoe]

As for boxing, just about anything unique to that sport is idiotic to do in a real fight. You can train boxing to hone certain skills, but as a system it's perceptible to getting kneed in the face (silly head movement which only makes sense if you can only punch), low kicked to oblivion, etc.

Would you elaborate on what is unique to boxing?

[Heuristic]

As for boxing, just about anything unique to that sport is idiotic to do in a real fight. You can train boxing to hone certain skills, but as a system it's perceptible to getting kneed in the face (silly head movement which only makes sense if you can only punch), low kicked to oblivion, etc.

[Heuristic]

martial arts are people: people who run or train at actual gyms in physical locations. That's why this question has a kind of Batman versus Spiderman aspect to it that I find uninteresting. (It's also the most common motivation behind divorcing these kinds of questions from purpose or application.) To make my objection concrete, I bet that 1. 100x more people have access to a BJJ gym than a catch wrestling gym, and 2. for 96.4% of people who have the option to train either one, the BJJ gym will provide better grappling training.

I'm going to try not to get bogged down in argument about how many catch wrestlers can dance on the head of a pin. So sure, if there were catch wrestling gyms and tournaments across the land in equal abundance to the many BJJ gyms in urban areas across the West of the real world, then I bet cross-pollination with BJJ and MMA would make catch wrestling a great way to train takedowns, reversals, and submissions, and it would be a fine choice for learning to fight. San da taiji would still whup its ass though, because you get the same +4 to Takedowns and a way cooler Kicking Attack power-up.

You can't go wrong with BJJ either if the sparring rounds starts standing up (which my intended club in fact does). So it's an easy pick for me.

[1point2]

I believe CW combines the best of two worlds (wrestling and submissions), hence making it nr 1 for me as a unarmed fighting system opposite another unarmed opponent.

Life is not a video game. Martial arts do not have numerical stats and special powers like Dungeons & Dragons character classes. (Submissions +3! Bonus "pinning" skill!) Catch wrestling is essentially nonexistent—how can it combine the best of any worlds?

In the world we live in, martial arts are people: people who run or train at actual gyms in physical locations. That's why this question has a kind of Batman versus Spiderman aspect to it that I find uninteresting. (It's also the most common motivation behind divorcing these kinds of questions from purpose or application.) To make my objection concrete, I bet that 1. 100x more people have access to a BJJ gym than a catch wrestling gym, and 2. for 96.4% of people who have the option to train either one, the BJJ gym will provide better grappling training.

I'm going to try not to get bogged down in argument about how many catch wrestlers can dance on the head of a pin. So sure, if there were catch wrestling gyms and tournaments across the land in equal abundance to the many BJJ gyms in urban areas across the West of the real world, then I bet cross-pollination with BJJ and MMA would make catch wrestling a great way to train takedowns, reversals, and submissions, and it would be a fine choice for learning to fight. San da taiji would still whup its ass though, because you get the same +4 to Takedowns and a way cooler Kicking Attack power-up.

[Heuristic]

Such as?

Angelo Dundee.