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A Bad Time At a Shaolin Kung Fu School

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    A Bad Time At a Shaolin Kung Fu School

    Some time ago, I left my martial arts training. Mainly because it turned out to be a bad atmosphere. Check this crap out:

    (a) they constantly talk bad about other martial art schools. they are not even open to having a nice conversation about other schools.

    (b) they constantly talk bad about their current and past students to other students. setting up a somewhat hostile atmosphere between students. So, don’t get on their shit list.

    (c) they use intimidation and the threat of social isolation to control some of their students.

    (d) they are just a belt factory. constantly pressuring you to test, which costs money. after a certain belt level any testing material costs extra on top of membership fees.

    (e) they can’t teach anything more then surface level because (i have discovered) they don’t have the training to deeply teach it to you. though they will claim that they do. they run you through everything they teach fast, then go on not always liking to be asked questions.

    (f) they have a group of favorite students, which is just plain stupid behavior. more of a cult atmosphere, which I have been told is common for traditional martial art schools.

    (g) the head teacher is hitting his students during demonstrations...saying they were accidents and how tricky that move is. that is up for debate.

    (h) the head teacher randomly insults students during class, saying he is joking. Really?

    (i) before I left a handful of students incurred injuries at around the same time. possibly related to being accidentally hit by the head instructor or having their pressure points hit?

    I am incredibly glad to be out of there, partly because one of the head instructors minions had been harassing me the last few weeks I was there. i got to know the main instructors some and I seriously wonder about their mental stability.

    Is what I experienced and observed common within other martial art schools?
    Last edited by WowReally; 11/13/2019 12:56pm, .

    #2
    So basically, another of the Shaolin cults. We have people who have trained in some of these school before. I wouldn't say it's common within other martial arts, exactly. But some of it is. Just depends on how larpy they are and if they buy into their own bull shit.

    How long did you train with them?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

    "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

    Comment


      #3
      I trained for a couple of years. i would love to have my time, effort, and money back. I am finding out now how fake the Shaolin Do system under “grandmaster” Sin Kwang The is. I feel so lied too. my training has been full of shit. there is almost nothing I can use in a real fight, a lot because they don’t teach any real conditioning...I found other schools show how they condition students and wow what a big difference.

      Comment


        #4
        Yeah, you would be better off training in San Da if you are still interested in CMA. Otherwise find a good kickboxing gym. If striking is what you are into.
        Combatives training log.

        Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

        Drum thread

        Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

        "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

        Comment


          #5
          Shaolin Do Strikes Again!

          Of all the decent Shaolin training, how is it THIS place keeps popping up?

          Run, don't look back.

          Read..

          https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=115630

          https://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27115

          And especially

          http://bullshido.org/Sin_The

          Comment


            #6
            [QUOTE=W. Rabbit;3052887]Shaolin Do Strikes Again!

            Of all the decent Shaolin training, how is it THIS place keeps popping up?

            Run, don't look back

            _______________________


            I think they keep coming up because you don’t see it at first. I have read posts where experienced martial artists go into one of the schools and talk to a head instructor. It is apparent to them that the art is kind of BS, but probably not the bad atmosphere that some of the schools are. It isn’t until you get close-ish and start getting to know the “masters” that you see it. Talk about dysfunctional and in a bit of a scary way.

            You know it. I ran and have not looked back.

            Thanks for the links. I had read the /Sin_Tan article, but not the others.

            Some food for thought. One of the long time instructors is having a hard time keeping their emotions bottled up which makes this person dangerously unstable to be around. I felt that another instructor there is becoming unhinged emotionally as well (not violently I don’t think). Don’t be surprised if you hear of another lawsuit (not from me) in the future.
            Last edited by WowReally; 11/14/2019 10:45am, .

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
              Yeah, you would be better off training in San Da if you are still interested in CMA. Otherwise find a good kickboxing gym. If striking is what you are into.

              I am more into stuff like Tai Chi. But thanks for the ideas.

              Comment


                #8
                fleshing this out a bit more...

                Diesel is right, BS does have at least a few members who were burned by Shaolin Do. But I'm not sure they'll want to reopen those wounds, though, to discuss it. Beyond beating dead horses type stuff. This is kind of one of those epic but tragic stories where there are no winners.

                Depending on what you want to get out of learning about Shaolin, I'd recommend certain schools for different things.

                Legit Hung Kuen or Five Family lineages are usually a decent mix of Chan mental and physical conditioning along with "basics" of Chinese grappling and boxing. Schools that actually train for/attend Sanda/Sanshou events are what to look for.

                For Wudangquan arts, which are far fewer in number, I'd look again for schools that train and compete in alive comp. If push hands comp isn't your cup of tea (it's definitely not mine), there are some decent Shuai jiao schools here and there that incorporate Taijiquan, Bagua, Xing Yi etc.

                It's also a complete myth that Shaolin and Wudang arts are even really different things. There is a long history of interaction that ties them together, and that's the result of actual scholarly research, not Sin The's horseshit.
                Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/14/2019 12:27pm, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                  fleshing this out a bit more...

                  Diesel is right, BS does have at least a few members who were burned by Shaolin Do. But I'm not sure they'll want to reopen those wounds, though, to discuss it. Beyond beating dead horses type stuff. This is kind of one of those epic but tragic stories where there are no winners.

                  Depending on what you want to get out of learning about Shaolin, I'd recommend certain schools for different things.

                  Legit Hung Kuen or Five Family lineages are usually a decent mix of Chan mental and physical conditioning along with "basics" of Chinese grappling and boxing. Schools that actually train for/attend Sanda/Sanshou events are what to look for.

                  For Wudangquan arts, which are far fewer in number, I'd look again for schools that train and compete in alive comp. If push hands comp isn't your cup of tea (it's definitely not mine), there are some decent Shuai jiao schools here and there that incorporate Taijiquan, Bagua, Xing Yi etc.

                  It's also a complete myth that Shaolin and Wudang arts are even really different things. There is a long history of interaction that ties them together, and that's the result of actual scholarly research, not Sin The's horseshit.

                  no worries. wasn’t looking to reopen old wounds. i am pretty much done myself now. thanks for a place to vent.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Weirdos

                    I trained at the Chinese Shaolin Center in Denver. Under “masters” Sharon and David Soard. What a couple of frauds. The sad thing is that I think they actually partially believe that they are great.

                    It wasn’t until I started training with teachers who knew what they were doing that I really understood how bad my training from the Soards really was. Proper stances are barely taught by the Soards. They don’t condition you enough. They run the place with a cult mentality that takes time too see. And there is more. But, since people here have trained with them too, you know what I am talking about. I do believe their training causes more sports related injuries then it supposively prevents.
                    Last edited by WowReally; 11/16/2019 8:34am, .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by WowReally View Post
                      I trained at the Chinese Shaolin Center in Denver. Under “masters” Sharon and David Soard. What a couple of frauds. The sad thing is that I think they actually partially believe that they are great.

                      It wasn’t until I started training with teachers who knew what they were doing that I really understood how bad my training from the Soards really was. Proper stances are barely taught by the Soards. They don’t condition you enough. They run the place with a cult mentality that takes time too see. And there is more. But, since people here have trained with them too, you know what I am talking about. I do believe their training causes more sports related injuries then it supposively prevents.
                      Uh, when did you train with them? Soard has a criminal history of sexual abuses..

                      https://www.dailycamera.com/2009/09/...ets-probation/

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yup

                        Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                        Uh, when did you train with them? Soard has a criminal history of sexual abuses..

                        https://www.dailycamera.com/2009/09/...ets-probation/

                        I was at the Boulder school around that time. I left right before the lawsuit because I saw things were about to boil over with their favorite group of black belts...but didn’t exactly know why except there was a lot of tension building. I knew about the lawsuit when I went back, but figured he learned his lesson (I didn’t know about the multiple cases). As far as I know he hasn’t been a repeat offender since the students took him to court.

                        I mainly went back because I believed that I was learning a 1500 year old martial art that was being taught properly (I know better now). I also figured that since they were no longer associated with Sin The that they would really positively change how they taught for the better (not what happened). I left the second time for completely different reasons other then his shady past. But, I never could fully trust David because of the sexual assault charges.

                        The Soards have gotten lazier with their training and want students to test as soon as possible. So instead of having people wait the usual years between black belt levels they are pushing people through faster. To me they don’t seem to care what that pressure can do to some people psychologically or physically as David is constantly on people to test...they want their money. That was one of the crappy things I got tired of.
                        Last edited by WowReally; 11/16/2019 11:48pm, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by WowReally View Post
                          I am more into stuff like Tai Chi. But thanks for the ideas.
                          You mentioned you trained in Denver. Do you still live there? I googled Taijiquan schools in that area and found one run by a student of Chen ZiQiang, from Chenjiagou. Master Chen ZiQiang is very well regarded by tuishou practitioners -- some of the best videos on youtube showing TJQ applications and sparring are his or his students.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks Though

                            Originally posted by Drunken Soim View Post
                            You mentioned you trained in Denver. Do you still live there? I googled Taijiquan schools in that area and found one run by a student of Chen ZiQiang, from Chenjiagou. Master Chen ZiQiang is very well regarded by tuishou practitioners -- some of the best videos on youtube showing TJQ applications and sparring are his or his students.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by WowReally View Post

                              I am outta here. The environment you spend time in has an impact on you. Choose wisely.
                              Of course it does. lol
                              Combatives training log.

                              Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                              Drum thread

                              Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                              "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

                              Comment

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