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    #46
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Thanks as usual.

    One clarification, Judo was in the late 90s. No orange belts, just yellow, green, brown, black. I was close. Actually I might have had a green stripe on my belt. I'll check later. I've thought about joining Princeton Judo, but honestly I prefer BJJ. Who knows.

    I claim no grappling expertise at all. Except kesa gatame. I got that hold down in 1998. Later around 2015, some wicked escapes.

    My sifu taught me "there are no good masters, only various level of poor". Wise man.

    What did you think of the Glima video I posted? Hot or cold?
    I think I gave some opinion on the Glima video(s).

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
      Yeah. Kesa g is one of those holds where a little extra weight and long leg make a big difference. But in PBJJ we focused on transitions, so holding someone down too long was sometimes seen as stalling, unless it was straight up sparring.

      Honestly it's my upper half that needs work. My lower half is a different story, because I like an hour of squats and bodyweight exercises almost every day. My guard was getting pretty good before my knee bummed out.
      That's the raw rub between sport and SD. In SD, stalling may actually be the best option. Establish a position of dominance, or at least neutrality, until the situation can resolve by other means.
      Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by submessenger View Post
        Kesa is my go-to. As a smaller-yet-larger guy (6'0 150-ish) I find my long legs work well for that hold, and there are many neat subs from there, without switching position. Unfortunately, my dominant right cuts the subs in half; I can only effectively kesa from one side. Train moar!
        Hon Kesa Gatame works. I learned in BJJ that the Kuzure Kesa Gatame is preferred, due to the underhook limiting uke ability to take your back. I knew from Judo that you have to carefully place your arm around uke head/neck in Hon Kesa Gatame in order to avoid getting it trapped, and easily bridged over.

        Despite my (probably expected) experience skill at holding (and submitting) judoka from Hon Kesa Gatame, I found that, as I learned in BJJ, holding with Kuzure Kesa Gatame (far under-hook version) is a safer bet in BJJ, where, you are working for a submission or further positional dominance (in competition), rather than winning a match, as in Judo.

        I knew some subs from Hon Kesa, but I learned things I had never seen before from a one-legged BJJ black belt from Montana regarding that.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by submessenger View Post
          Kesa is my go-to. As a smaller-yet-larger guy (6'0 150-ish) I find my long legs work well for that hold, and there are many neat subs from there, without switching position. Unfortunately, my dominant right cuts the subs in half; I can only effectively kesa from one side. Train moar!
          Kesa is a go to of mine as well. As a reverse larger-yet-smaller guy (5'8" ~200) I find this works equally well for me. I used to find the lack of height/length annoying but have managed to overcome these shortfalls and can trap brown's and even blackbelts in this pin and slowly work for one of the many subs.

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            #50
            Originally posted by BKR View Post
            Hon Kesa Gatame works. I learned in BJJ that the Kuzure Kesa Gatame is preferred, due to the underhook limiting uke ability to take your back. I knew from Judo that you have to carefully place your arm around uke head/neck in Hon Kesa Gatame in order to avoid getting it trapped, and easily bridged over.

            Despite my (probably expected) experience skill at holding (and submitting) judoka from Hon Kesa Gatame, I found that, as I learned in BJJ, holding with Kuzure Kesa Gatame (far under-hook version) is a safer bet in BJJ, where, you are working for a submission or further positional dominance (in competition), rather than winning a match, as in Judo.

            I knew some subs from Hon Kesa, but I learned things I had never seen before from a one-legged BJJ black belt from Montana regarding that.
            I'm somewhat unique in that I prefer Hon Kesa over Kuzure. There are two specific subs I do to counter the escape you refer to above, and at least four others just from the position not including a tap from pressure.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
              If I had to guess on hours put in, just to be transparent, probably about 500 hours spent in Judo and BJJ with about 65% in the latter. Hence yellow testing for green, and forever almost blue.

              But Chinese standup grappling, San shou ruleset? Easily 5,000 hours, with about 2k spent on grappling fundamentals, especially grips, and when I took BJJ, it was practically identical. Sanshou takedowns are very similar to other to grappling arts that "work".

              White belt for life. Black belt only means you've mastered the basics.

              And in Glima, the belt is literally just a harness. I posted a picture earlier, the oldest ones look like horse harness, made for a man.
              In Judo, that is what shodan is supposed to mean, but, it's not really mastered. And by basics, it means pretty much basic basics have been learned to a degree that not having them is not an impediment to further learning.

              It's an old standard from Japan, and in modern times, I'm afraid, IMO and IME, it's rarely met, fully at least.

              Particularly given the emphasis on competition. And the lack of agreement on what "basics" mean. Or lack of knowledge, in many cases.

              It's a journey, for sure, and people are individuals. Shodan literally means something like "pattern" or "fits pattern". A very...Japan-esy way of looking at learning, eh ?

              In Japan, anything up to and often including sandan is not considered to be expert level, in Judo (in Japan) at least. It's like, get your yondan and then we can talk...

              Because you have jr. high kids getting shodan after a year or two of Judo.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by cualltaigh View Post
                I'm somewhat unique in that I prefer Hon Kesa over Kuzure. There are two specific subs I do to counter the escape you refer to above, and at least four others just from the position not including a tap from pressure.
                I think that if a person has the skill to use Hon Kesa, and force the guy on bottom to really have to exert themselves to escape, it's good.

                I can hold most guys I ever rolled with in Kesa for quite some time. If I transition, then even longer.

                The bigger they are, the harder it gets, especially if they know what they are doing, and the smaller the margin of error in trying to transition to another position or a submission.

                Catching a black belt of any size with a sub from there was something I never even got close to doing in BJJ.

                I used to just see how long I could hold my coach, which we both found to be very amusing and fun.

                Most people hold in Hon Kesa with their knuckles down, which facilitates the bridging/arm trap types of escapes.

                I know two subs for that variety of escape, maybe three. Of course at this point, I can't train anymore so it's moot.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  Hon Kesa Gatame works. I learned in BJJ that the Kuzure Kesa Gatame is preferred, due to the underhook limiting uke ability to take your back. I knew from Judo that you have to carefully place your arm around uke head/neck in Hon Kesa Gatame in order to avoid getting it trapped, and easily bridged over.

                  Despite my (probably expected) experience skill at holding (and submitting) judoka from Hon Kesa Gatame, I found that, as I learned in BJJ, holding with Kuzure Kesa Gatame (far under-hook version) is a safer bet in BJJ, where, you are working for a submission or further positional dominance (in competition), rather than winning a match, as in Judo.

                  I knew some subs from Hon Kesa, but I learned things I had never seen before from a one-legged BJJ black belt from Montana regarding that.
                  Words words Japanese cultural appropriation blah blah. Holy shit, these things have names!

                  Kuzure is my preferred, I find that (my) Hon is easy to roll out/shrimp out of; small arms and small torso. It can be a good starting point, though, with less experienced players.
                  Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by BKR View Post
                    I think I gave some opinion on the Glima video(s).
                    This one ?

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by BKR View Post
                      It's a journey, for sure, and people are individuals. Shodan literally means something like "pattern" or "fits pattern". A very...Japan-esy way of looking at learning, eh .
                      You know I'm pretty good with the hanzi/kanji.

                      初段 means first steps, like a baby's or the bottom of a stairwell.

                      Totally Japanese.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                        I consider myself an expert in Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

                        I have world class instructors,I study film, I buy privates with world champs, I study instructionals and train 6 days a week.
                        Years are not a good way to gauge time training. I have around 12,000 hours training. If I am not an expert than no one is.
                        Shut the hell up and train.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                          Words words Japanese cultural appropriation blah blah. Holy shit, these things have names!

                          Kuzure is my preferred, I find that (my) Hon is easy to roll out/shrimp out of; small arms and small torso. It can be a good starting point, though, with less experienced players.
                          No, you suck at Hon Kesa, that is the problem. It is harder to do.

                          Short torso...lol

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                            This one ?

                            Yes...I believe so...

                            Standard wrestling

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by BKR View Post
                              No, you suck at Hon Kesa, that is the problem. It is harder to do.

                              Short torso...lol
                              I said small torso. I can't keep muscle or volume without constant attention. My arms are twigs, my neck is 14 inches, my chest is in the 33" range. Legs are what makes my kesa work, when it works.
                              Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

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