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    Rock and Water

    Let me set the scene for you. You're ten years old, you've just had your face smashed into the ground by a bully during lunch time. Your class is taken into the hall, a mysterious man with a thick European accent tells you he will be teaching you highly effective self defence. He has sparked your interest. The name of this elusive martial art?

    ROCK AND WATER.

    Brilliant, that sounds like some Bruce Lee shit. You're sold. The next two hours will turn you into a warrior for sure. First you learn the Rock and Water bow of respect. You place your cupped water hand on top of your fisted rock hand over your heart and bow to your new master. Deep. You sit down barefoot for some reason, one by one awkwardly staring each of your classmates in the face. All good, everyone is just opening up their hearts to the training. You were told something about the premise of sometimes needing to be firm and unmoving, like when offered a cigarette, and other times fluid and dynamic, like when trying to understand another's feelings. Perfect. Your heart and mind has been prepared for the awesome skills you are about to receive.

    You put your hand up and ask "when does the self defence start?"

    The European instructor responds "soon, young man, first we must solidify these ideas with a little game".

    CHINESE STICKY HANDS BOXING.

    Brilliant, your inner Bruce Lee is ready to kill. Unfortunately you and your classmates end up like old people trying to hump.

    "I don't think I can defend myself from a bully with sticky hands" another student says.

    "Of course" the European instructor replies. "These are games for the heart, mind and soul. One more and I promise we will do the practical self defence".

    You're getting impatient now but you still have faith. For the next twenty minutes everyone walks the gauntlet whilst you launch insults at them. Someone went too far with the fat kid and now he's crying. Shit. You're next. You're relieved that even though you're a fat kid you're not THE fat kid. Finally, after what seems like forever the European instructor stands firm and tall in front of all his students.

    "When a bully wants to hurt you and you have not been able to diffuse the situation with water, you need to activate your rock" he proclaims.

    "How do we do that?" asks the chorus of little pubescent voices.

    "Everybody copy me" he replies.

    "Put one hand in front of your face, and with a firm and demanding voice shout..."

    He pauses to internalise the weight of the weapon he is about to unleash.

    "STOP IT, I DON'T LIKE IT!"

    -

    Out of all the shitty 'self defence' lessons I took as a child through school and council programs, ranging from fat Ninjutsu instructors teaching me secret pressure points to door to door GKR karate sales reps taking a fat toke of the school budget, being told that in the face of physical violence all I need to do is put my hand out in front of my face and scream "stop it, I don't like it" has to be the most retarded thing I have ever been taught.

    Moral development aside, take your kids to a few boxing classes ffs.

    Skip to 1:14 through 1:48 for comedy gold

    Last edited by soyboy; 4/12/2019 1:30am, .

    #2
    Reminds me of this:

    Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

    Comment


      #3
      This seems like it hits on some good points but falls short of others.

      There's a lot of value in teaching bullied kids to be assertive. Telling your bully to stop/shut the fuck up/get lost/scram is the first step to not being bullied. Yelling in their face is a show of force. You've immediately made it a little more work for the bully.

      However, this training isn't realistic, because it implies an attacker will stop because you were assertive. Obviously not true in the real world. Naturally I think the rest of us want the scramble-time to turn into grappling, but that's not realistic at this age, inside a school at least.

      I thought it was funny how the training is still pseudo-alive. It has 2 of Matt Thornton's 3 requirements: timing and energy. Its movement component is still semi-random, but it's missing real resistance.
      Last edited by W. Rabbit; 4/12/2019 1:05pm, .

      Comment


        #4
        Remember this? This is another reason why assertiveness as a first resort if still valuable. De-escalation is actually pretty important thing to teach kids, otherwise you often end up with these types of ambiguous "bully encounters".

        Who's the bully in this video again? De-escalation is probably a lot more important than yelling in someone else's face...there are better and worse ways of asserting oneself, surely.

        when you don't, this happens.

        Comment


          #5
          This post really was just meant to be a bit of a laugh. The problem with Rock and Water was the way that they tried to market themselves as self defence programs through their psuedo physicality. These programs were and still are very popular in Australia/NZ. Some of these exercises, such as the gauntlet, and some of the emotional principles taught are completely sound.

          The problem is kids do actually need to know how to defend themselves, and those principles can be and are taught through combat programs. Obviously that's asking a lot for primary educators, but often these primary/elementary education programs are outsourced. Everything is an evolution obviously, but it would be fucking awesome to see something like the Judo or even the Gracie Bullyproof program (where all the same emotional and moral principles are present) widespread in primary schools instead of mcdojo karate and ninjutsu. Rock and Water was (in total regard) a better use of funding then the previously stated. Wouldn't hurt for Rock and Water to evolve and teach kids the ole 1-2 much to the disagreement I'm sure some parents would have :')

          As a parent myself I've never understood the near total acceptance for bullshit fat dudes teaching bullshit strip mall crap to little kids but proper lessons in combat are a big no no here. This is an Australian view though, I am impressed with the widespread popularity of amateur boxing and wrestling in the US.
          Last edited by soyboy; 4/14/2019 7:50pm, .

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
            This seems like it hits on some good points but falls short of others.

            There's a lot of value in teaching bullied kids to be assertive. Telling your bully to stop/shut the fuck up/get lost/scram is the first step to not being bullied. Yelling in their face is a show of force. You've immediately made it a little more work for the bully.

            However, this training isn't realistic, because it implies an attacker will stop because you were assertive. Obviously not true in the real world. Naturally I think the rest of us want the scramble-time to turn into grappling, but that's not realistic at this age, inside a school at least.

            I thought it was funny how the training is still pseudo-alive. It has 2 of Matt Thornton's 3 requirements: timing and energy. Its movement component is still semi-random, but it's missing real resistance.
            I totally agree with you about the assertiveness. I'm just almost certain yelling 'stop it, I don't like it' in particular, in that exact wording, will lead to more problems with a bully. It implies they are getting to you, and they will feed off that.

            I'm a dreamer, Rabbit. I'm honestly pretty certain that, at least with appropriate outsourcing or consultancy that widespread, intelligent and economical self defence could be taught at the elementary level in government schools combining consideration for mind, body, and spirit.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by soyboy View Post
              These programs were and still are very popular in Australia/NZ.
              This is the first I've ever heard of them, maybe it's just popular way down south

              Originally posted by soyboy View Post
              but proper lessons in combat are a big no no here. This is an Australian view though, I am impressed with the widespread popularity of amateur boxing and wrestling in the US.
              Again, might be a southern states thing. Maybe they should start getting you guys to start playing real footy down there instead of that silly AFL stuff ;-)
              2018 Male Purple Belt Adult No Gi
              #2 Ranked Competitor - QBJJC

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                #8
                Originally posted by cualltaigh View Post
                This is the first I've ever heard of them, maybe it's just popular way down south.

                Again, might be a southern states thing. Maybe they should start getting you guys to start playing real footy down there instead of that silly AFL stuff ;-)

                More likely the southern coastline states. I love it how the guy from Adelaide is making statements about broader Australia. Adelaide, the city with a smaller population than the desert isolated Perth.

                In regards to the Gale kid, yeah, sorry, doesn't compute little buddy. You're acting like an eshay lad, dressing like an eshay lad, and hanging with eshay lads, you're an eshay lad. Meaning your bullshit story about being the actual victim doesn't work on me, gronk.
                GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
                Originally posted by Devil
                I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
                Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
                I <3 Battlefields...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by soyboy View Post
                  I totally agree with you about the assertiveness. I'm just almost certain yelling 'stop it, I don't like it' in particular, in that exact wording, will lead to more problems with a bully. It implies they are getting to you, and they will feed off that.

                  I'm a dreamer, Rabbit. I'm honestly pretty certain that, at least with appropriate outsourcing or consultancy that widespread, intelligent and economical self defence could be taught at the elementary level in government schools combining consideration for mind, body, and spirit.
                  Maybe. Bullies feed on perceived vulnerability more than anything else. They are going to bully the low hanging fruit; the moment you aren't so low hanging, they'll either escalate (because they're bigger, etc) or they'll move on. This program seems geared towards the "move on" bully, and not the worst kind, which is the physical antagonist who is just waiting for you to physically defend yourself so they can justify pummeling the fuck out of you.

                  A lot of programs teach passivity...they don't work against the WORST because being passive is seen as being weak and the worst bullies will eat that alive. However, the worst bullies also sometimes respect physical resistance.

                  Here's what worked for me: a bully I was trying to avoid after a high school dance intercepted me in a Turkey Hill parking lot. I decided I was done being bullied and trying to hide, and so instead of yelling or walking away, I actually clinched. Woke up 10m later laying next to a vending machine. Apparently my bully couldn't beat me up, so they decided to choke me out instead. Bully never bothered me again. I was way too much work for him. I never took a punch from that...bunch of girls bought me pizza instead. My friend got clobbered by some other kid, didn't defend himself, called the police...was bullied for another few years.

                  So I agree on the teaching kids self defence skills part. But not to beat up their bullies. More like to bleed all over their smug fucking faces. Bullies HATE that.

                  This video pretty much sums up my position on bullies. I also look a lot like Ed Norton, according to my closest friends.

                  Last edited by W. Rabbit; 4/15/2019 6:19pm, .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                    This seems like it hits on some good points but falls short of others.

                    Telling your bully to stop/shut the fuck up/get lost/scram is the first step to not being bullied. Yelling in their face is a show of force. You've immediately made it a little more work for the bully.

                    However, this training isn't realistic, because it implies an attacker will stop because you were assertive. Obviously not true in the real world.
                    True. Sometimes being assertive makes the bully slap you instead for "not giving him the respect he deserves".

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Awesomeg View Post
                      True. Sometimes being assertive makes the bully slap you instead for "not giving him the respect he deserves".
                      Taking a slap is the first step on the road to enlightenment, let alone defeating a bully.

                      That'd be a great way to spice of Rock and Water? A good bitch slap.

                      "STOP, I DON'T LIKE IT! *WHACK*"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by battlefields View Post
                        More likely the southern coastline states. I love it how the guy from Adelaide is making statements about broader Australia. Adelaide, the city with a smaller population than the desert isolated Perth.
                        No need to start comparing sizes dude, not on.

                        Come do Rock and Water in my garage with me, it'll mellow you out.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                          Taking a slap is the first step on the road to enlightenment, let alone defeating a bully.

                          That'd be a great way to spice of Rock and Water? A good bitch slap.

                          "STOP, I DON'T LIKE IT! *WHACK*"
                          Ah, so that's why monks do Iron Testicle.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cualltaigh View Post
                            This is the first I've ever heard of them, maybe it's just popular way down south
                            Don't worry, your local vegan, acid tripping, crystal healing chaplain has you provided up North-East.

                            Last edited by soyboy; 4/15/2019 9:36pm, .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by soyboy View Post
                              Don't worry, your local vegan, acid tripping, crystal healing chaplain has you provided up North-East.




                              Well, Caloundra is called ClownTown for a reason
                              2018 Male Purple Belt Adult No Gi
                              #2 Ranked Competitor - QBJJC

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