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    #31
    Originally posted by Filipmania View Post
    Our instructor does a mix between Vasiliev and Kadochnikov styles
    The two are completely incompatible, legit instructors from either will tell you that. VR Systema is a mash up of weird with a sprinkling of freshly ground bovine feces for flavor. You do whatever feels good and that is you training to your body's natural flow.

    Kadochnikov System is based on hard science(or as hard as they had in the USSR in the 70's and 80's). It is designed to be a military training system incorporating a bunch of stuff including hand to hand combatives. The combative portion is fairly rudimentary and will not work beyond a fairly untrained opponent.

    Originally posted by kimjonghng View Post
    What do you reckon to Retuinskih's System ROSS? I hear that's a lot more like Combat Sambo but I've seen it interchangeably referred to as a systema style.
    ROSS is combat Sambo(sport Sambo too). Retuinskih was a Russian Master of Sport in both Judo and Sambo, and was part of Kadochnikov's original research team. Combat Sambo was the official martial art of the Red Army, though it wasn't very effective. They stripped it down(much like the Gracies did BJJ to invent Gracie Combatives, which more or less became MACP in the US) and developed the H2H portion of Systema. Kadochnikov and Retuinskih had a falling out in the early 90's over several issues, one of which was whether they should be involved with Sport/Competition. Kadochnikov believed no, Retuinskih believed yes. With the fall of Soviet Union Retuinskih took a contract with the MVD and FSB to teach them Systema(ROSS), which he still does to this day. Anyway Retuinskih raised up a stable of Sambo national and world champions, and was in 1997 given the title Honored Master of Sport with the citation reading that he revolutionized the whole sport. He was also given the title Coach of Russia but the Russian Olympic Committee. Today if you do Combat Sambo the Self Defense and Combat portions are ROSS.

    However, Retuinskih doesn't call his System "Systema", he calls it ROSS which is a play on Rus(long story). The only people that really call their stuff "Systema" is Vasiliev/Ryabko.
    Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

    "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

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      #32
      Originally posted by Filipmania View Post
      I'll try it but I believe in my instructor
      Here's what my instructor has to say about the booj.

      I thought I spelled it wrong, but as I said I'm a mechanic not an English professor.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
        Here's what my instructor has to say about the booj.

        Bruh.

        That chit is hilarious.

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          #34
          One thing I find amusing from both aikidoka and ninjas is the whole ukemi as self defense thing. I get knowing how to roll and fall is good, but honestly if that's your standard take a parkour or gymnastics class. When it comes to that kind of shit, martial arts are little league.

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            #35
            Originally posted by kimjonghng View Post
            What do you reckon to Retuinskih's System ROSS? I hear that's a lot more like Combat Sambo but I've seen it interchangeably referred to as a systema style.
            Michael did a through write up on it. ROSS,while mainly a Combat Sambo organization, would be classified under the Kadochnikov banner as far as the Systema piece goes.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Stocking Stuffer View Post
              Michael did a through write up on it. ROSS,while mainly a Combat Sambo organization, would be classified under the Kadochnikov banner as far as the Systema piece goes.
              fair enough. I asked because I have previously done a little sambo with Vadim Kalganov at one of his seminars in the UK, and the ROSS system was referenced in discussion

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                #37
                Michael, about as incompatible as any MMA mixup(and this is a branch of the same MA)
                I've yet to notice where this line of fairly untrained opponents is, you've never linked your reasons for why u think it's bullshit
                My "incompatible" dojo has all the elements of real pressure testing, e.g all the participants ganging up on one and attacking however, whenever
                resisting&heavier&taller than you partners and of course the famous diaphragm shots&weight pressuring on it alongside breathing exercises
                the first few trainings were so hard on me I thought I was going to pass out but a few trainings in there was no safe practice I valued more for releasing me from tension and fear(like getting hit, the same pass out shots from before are fine)

                Nice troll channel Kriegschwein, I actually know this dude lol.

                BJMills, ukemi is a fall-back solution if everything else fails not the self-defense itself, there's another layer of letting the attack slide through you in Systema tho

                kimjonghng ?? Not you trashing it(Judo), me trashing it, which I said I wasn't trying to

                Happy new year btw

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post
                  My ukemi skills go to eleven.
                  Yeah, man. My falling down game is on point. Most of the time I fall down when I'm not even trying, if you can believe it. I can do it drunk, stoned or sober. I don't even think of it as falling down anymore, I like to think I'm just punching the earth with my body. So's to remind everyone whose boss.
                  "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by kimjonghng View Post
                    fair enough. I asked because I have previously done a little sambo with Vadim Kalganov at one of his seminars in the UK, and the ROSS system was referenced in discussion
                    Vadim is a long time student and personal friend of Alexander Retuinskih.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by kimjonghng View Post
                      fair enough. I asked because I have previously done a little sambo with Vadim Kalganov at one of his seminars in the UK, and the ROSS system was referenced in discussion
                      Originally posted by halfcut View Post
                      Vadim is a long time student and personal friend of Alexander Retuinskih.
                      Vadim is one of those champions that I mentioned that Retuinskih raised up.
                      Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                      "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Filipmania View Post
                        Michael, about as incompatible as any MMA mixup(and this is a branch of the same MA)
                        I've yet to notice where this line of fairly untrained opponents is, you've never linked your reasons for why u think it's bullshit
                        My "incompatible" dojo has all the elements of real pressure testing, e.g all the participants ganging up on one and attacking however, whenever
                        resisting&heavier&taller than you partners and of course the famous diaphragm shots&weight pressuring on it alongside breathing exercises
                        the first few trainings were so hard on me I thought I was going to pass out but a few trainings in there was no safe practice I valued more for releasing me from tension and fear(like getting hit, the same pass out shots from before are fine)

                        Nice troll channel Kriegschwein, I actually know this dude lol.

                        BJMills, ukemi is a fall-back solution if everything else fails not the self-defense itself, there's another layer of letting the attack slide through you in Systema tho

                        kimjonghng ?? Not you trashing it(Judo), me trashing it, which I said I wasn't trying to

                        Happy new year btw
                        One of these(Vasiliev) has no touch knock outs, psychic bubbles, no touch throws, healing punches, and believes in the absence of technique or defined attack and defense chains/combinations.

                        The other(Kadochnikov) openly mocks the hoodoo voodoo, has definite technique.and combinations(though they call them algorithms).

                        If you don't get how those are fundamentally incompatible, I don't know what to say. As far as what is bullshit, again that should be self explanatory.
                        Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                        "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Here, I'll make my point even stronger.

                          This is what you learn:





                          EDIT: Had to split this into two posts to get all the videos in.
                          Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                          "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                            #43
                            This is video footage of Retuinskih teaching right after his break from The Kadochnikov System of Pratical Mechanics for Survival in Extreme Circumstances(Systema for short).


                            By the way ^^^ that is what live sparring looks like.

                            Now the reason(the primary reason) that Retuinskih(he was the educational director of Kadohnikov system by the way) left was over an argument about live sparring and competition. He felt it was necessary. Kaochnikov felt that it would water down the training because rule sets set limits on what you can do(like stomping a guys head, blows to the back of the head ect), and if people trained to rule sets their training would become watered down. Retuinskih's counter argument was that without pressure testing and real sparring things would become overly compliant. This is what it looked like before Retuinskih left:



                            This is the state of Kadochnikov system today:


                            I'll readily admit that a lot of compliant stuff has entered in to the modern Kadochnikov system. However, it is no where near as compliant and worthless as the stuff in the videos you posted above.
                            Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                            "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post


                              This is the state of Kadochnikov system today:


                              I'll readily admit that a lot of compliant stuff has entered in to the modern Kadochnikov system. However, it is no where near as compliant and worthless as the stuff in the videos you posted above.
                              So ... i see their ukemi has gotten even more ridiculous since I checked last.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                "believes in the absence of technique or defined attack and defense chains/combinations"
                                Well is he not right? we know "techniques" as movement combinations, and he shows the movement(s) and the possible combination(s) but every time you change even the angle it's a somewhat different technique, if you explicitly memorize defined patterns you wont adapt to your opponent, if not you can play and change styles on the go based on your instinct and learned level, muscle memory, etc

                                >Dumps our demonstration videos attempting to mock, at least correct it to "I posted above", I mean I guess I have to go through this if I want to be a public image
                                Most of our videos are demonstrations for beginners, a lot of people come and go to our dojo because "this insane fucking stuff, they're savages", considering that these demonstrations are here to attract people it's nothing strange, also almost all demonstrations are to some extent "fake", because the instructor&student are afraid to hurt each other so they work more slowly to show the details of what they're doing and or because it's choreography, it doesn't exactly make the things shown invalid(especially the former, because in the former you can "play" in freestyle in slow motion to memorize the movement's details so that when you speed up you won't lose them)

                                >"By the way ^^^ that is what live sparring looks like." while proceeding to post a video which is 90% exercises, 10% sparring(and btw I do practically all of those)
                                But the actual live sparring must have been taken out from a recording of the entire training, not demonstrations we also have this in some videos but I'm not quite sure did the parts with people going at each other semi-real get into some video

                                Btw I couldn't find a single "ROSS" or "Retuinskih" group on facebook, I did however find Combat Sambo

                                edit 2:"So ... i see their ukemi has gotten even more ridiculous since I checked last."
                                Don't knock it till you tried it lol, ukemi is at least something you can try on your own
                                Last edited by Filipmania; 1/01/2019 2:59pm, .

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