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    BJJ Atemi Sightings

    It was recently brought to my attention that Brazillian Jiu Jitsu trains in striking. Also, I have seen UFC one before, and a BJJ instructional before, so I am aware of the JKD style side kick to the leg, heel kicks in guard, close range hooks to the ribs from the guard, etc. etc. Specifically, they slap each other around (perfectly fine atemi as far as I am concerned,) while sparring for certain belt tests, IF I understand correctly. Specifically this is common in the Gracie schools? So we are talking about something like this:


    Which in turns helps to explain this:


    I am good with that, no hatred for any of the above. But I need specifics. I don't want/need/care to see MMA/Vale Tudo/Style-vs-style-matches striking BJJ practitioners striking (as anyone is prone to do under those circumstances,) nor am I interested in 90's era instructional videos on the topic. What I want to see is YouTube of how BJJ people train striking in BJJ classes. Please post any such videos. Also any commentary on how frequently it is practiced at what belt levels would also be appreciated.

    #2
    It's called the MMA class that happens after the normal gi class on wednesday nights.

    Comment


      #3
      Its not going to be what your expecting to see, its going to be striking in the context of grappling.
      The concept isn't ever going to be to stand toe to toe striking with someone if your learning BJJ.
      Striking is a tool to get you into range, to set up takedowns, to open up guard, ect ect ect.
      Its not going to be like boxing or kick boxing.
      It is going to be what you see for the shit you said you don't want to see.

      That being said a lot of BJJ schools have striking instructors and those classes tend to be separate from the grappling classes but then its not really bjj is it.

      Comment


        #4
        That video is about as legit as a $3 bill. I hate these staged fake fight facebook attempts to get views....

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by BFGalbraith View Post
          It was recently brought to my attention that Brazillian Jiu Jitsu trains in striking. Also, I have seen UFC one before, and a BJJ instructional before, so I am aware of the JKD style side kick to the leg, heel kicks in guard, close range hooks to the ribs from the guard, etc. etc. Specifically, they slap each other around (perfectly fine atemi as far as I am concerned,) while sparring for certain belt tests, IF I understand correctly. Specifically this is common in the Gracie schools? So we are talking about something like this:


          Which in turns helps to explain this:


          I am good with that, no hatred for any of the above. But I need specifics. I don't want/need/care to see MMA/Vale Tudo/Style-vs-style-matches striking BJJ practitioners striking (as anyone is prone to do under those circumstances,) nor am I interested in 90's era instructional videos on the topic. What I want to see is YouTube of how BJJ people train striking in BJJ classes. Please post any such videos. Also any commentary on how frequently it is practiced at what belt levels would also be appreciated.
          Do you always talk like a queer? Get a haircut and quit being a fucking weirdo.

          Comment


            #6
            I have a friend that trains at Rener’s School in Torrance. They have self defense style classes that focus on dealing with strikes and striking in mount, striking to set up submissions, etc.

            Another friend trains in the valley at a place that also offers mma classes. There is no striking in the BJJ classes but people who want that do mma.

            And I know a few people who solely focus on competition BJJ. They don’t care about striking. They don’t care about self defense, they are athetes competing in a sport as far as they are concerned.

            If you’re interested in BJJ just train it, don’t ask people on an Internet forum to find videos for you.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BFGalbraith View Post
              It was recently brought to my attention that Brazillian Jiu Jitsu trains in striking. Also, I have seen UFC one before, and a BJJ instructional before, so I am aware of the JKD style side kick to the leg, heel kicks in guard, close range hooks to the ribs from the guard, etc. etc. Specifically, they slap each other around (perfectly fine atemi as far as I am concerned,) while sparring for certain belt tests, IF I understand correctly. Specifically this is common in the Gracie schools? So we are talking about something like this:


              Which in turns helps to explain this:


              I am good with that, no hatred for any of the above. But I need specifics. I don't want/need/care to see MMA/Vale Tudo/Style-vs-style-matches striking BJJ practitioners striking (as anyone is prone to do under those circumstances,) nor am I interested in 90's era instructional videos on the topic. What I want to see is YouTube of how BJJ people train striking in BJJ classes. Please post any such videos. Also any commentary on how frequently it is practiced at what belt levels would also be appreciated.
              MACP(which is what you see in the Fort Bliss video) uses open hand strikes to the head and closed hand strikes to the body. Or as Matt Larson put it, hard to soft, soft to hard. Reason: Soldiers need to be able to fight on after a single opponent is put down and can't bust up their hands by cracking someone in the skull.

              Army Combatives which is more or less an extension of Gracie Combatives with a few extras thrown in, is not designed for civilian usage and civilian problems. As a civilian in a self defense situation you can totally bust up your hands punching someone in the brain box and it will not greatly reduce your immediate combat effectiveness and thus ability to protect yourself. A civilian's fight will be over fairly quickly and then either the police will arrive or people will walk away, and your busted hands can be tended to and will only really impede your day to day life once the swelling and stiffness set in a couple of hours later.

              Military though, they can expect to operate for hours and even days. If a guy busts up his hands apprehending some person of interest or putting down a violent though unarmed combatant on day one, then he won't be able to operate his weapon or be combat effective on day two. Eventually hard plate gloves were issues to the Military to avoid this problem, however, back in the early days of MACP development they didn't have hard plate gloves and were having real problems with guys cracking their fists on people's skulls(there is a youtube clip somewhere of Matt Larson saying this). So they went with open hand strikes to the head. There is also the science(according to Matt Larson) that you can concuss a person just as easily with a palm strike as with a closed fist, and there really is no reason to use closed fist to the head in combat. Thus in MACP and their tourneys it is palm strikes to the head.

              Comment


                #8
                Found it. 13:30 minute mark until about 15min

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                  MACP(which is what you see in the Fort Bliss video) uses open hand strikes to the head and closed hand strikes to the body. Or as Matt Larson put it, hard to soft, soft to hard. Reason: Soldiers need to be able to fight on after a single opponent is put down and can't bust up their hands by cracking someone in the skull.

                  Army Combatives which is more or less an extension of Gracie Combatives with a few extras thrown in, is not designed for civilian usage and civilian problems. As a civilian in a self defense situation you can totally bust up your hands punching someone in the brain box and it will not greatly reduce your immediate combat effectiveness and thus ability to protect yourself. A civilian's fight will be over fairly quickly and then either the police will arrive or people will walk away, and your busted hands can be tended to and will only really impede your day to day life once the swelling and stiffness set in a couple of hours later.

                  Military though, they can expect to operate for hours and even days. If a guy busts up his hands apprehending some person of interest or putting down a violent though unarmed combatant on day one, then he won't be able to operate his weapon or be combat effective on day two. Eventually hard plate gloves were issues to the Military to avoid this problem, however, back in the early days of MACP development they didn't have hard plate gloves and were having real problems with guys cracking their fists on people's skulls(there is a youtube clip somewhere of Matt Larson saying this). So they went with open hand strikes to the head. There is also the science(according to Matt Larson) that you can concuss a person just as easily with a palm strike as with a closed fist, and there really is no reason to use closed fist to the head in combat. Thus in MACP and their tourneys it is palm strikes to the head.
                  My main teacher perfers open hand strikes. Hes the result of an Orangutan and Human breeding program i am pretty sure so I am not sure everyone can open hand strike like him. He hits thai pads harder open hand than just about anyone I have held pads for regardless of how they strike them.
                  My hooks i practice with an open hand.I call it the Pimp Hand Hook. I throw my hooks with the palm of my hand landing flush with my fingers folded in half into my palm.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It may not be BJJ, but Bas Rutten is an interesting case study on open hand striking.

                    It may not be BJJ, but Bas Rutten is an interesting case study on open hand striking.
                    The open handed striking I typically run through with my students on ground or otherwise is in the Gracie style.
                    But, Bas Rutten is quite a knock out artist with his open handed strikes,
                    and worthy of study, as he has his own approach to striking, including striking with open hands.
                    Bas has made plenty of instructional videos, has corresponding competition footage proving that what he says has practical foundation,
                    Plus he has this cool striking equipment platform he sells.
                    And, in real life, he is a helluva nice guy.
                    All around class act.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                      It may not be BJJ, but Bas Rutten is an interesting case study on open hand striking.
                      The open handed striking I typically run through with my students on ground or otherwise is in the Gracie style.
                      But, Bas Rutten is quite a knock out artist with his open handed strikes,
                      and worthy of study, as he has his own approach to striking, including striking with open hands.
                      Bas has made plenty of instructional videos, has corresponding competition footage proving that what he says has practical foundation,
                      Plus he has this cool striking equipment platform he sells.
                      And, in real life, he is a helluva nice guy.
                      All around class act.
                      Indeed, his grappling is less than technical except for a few moves. His guillotine is really good and his leg locks are solid . the mans kickboxing and open handed striking are top tier imo. Hes one of the guys i try to copy striking.








                      His kicks are essentially a car crash.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        And that's the most legit one I found

                        Originally posted by Gumby View Post
                        That video is about as legit as a $3 bill. I hate these staged fake fight facebook attempts to get views....
                        No doubt, and keep in mind that is the closest thing I have seen to "army comparatives slapping in BJJ classes" video I have found anywhere on the internet.

                        So any YouTube evidence that any BJJ school trains striking outside of a dedicated MMA program is either a reference to army combatives, which I brought up in the opening statement to this thread, or it looks staged.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                          Do you always talk like a queer? Get a haircut and quit being a fucking weirdo.
                          Seriously? THAT is YOUR response to this question? You can't find one single YouTube video of this BJJ striking that... hmm... who was it that made that claim... If there is some kind of striking going on in any Gi BJJ class, I can't find video evidence of it. Someone recently claimed basically every Gracie school known to mankind has some form of this. Were is it on Youtube?

                          This claim of Gracie striking is an issue, because it strongly implies Gi-Gracie-BJJ schools that don't cover striking have been in some way watered down. And it's looking like that is an accusation being pointed at a whole lot of schools.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            It is going to be what you see for the shit you said you don't want to see.
                            I am a huge fan of the slapping in Army Combatives. I am basically looking for youtube video of any BJJ school in recent training in gi with any kind of striking, that slapping in general.

                            I am not a fan of closed fist strikes to the head. Stuff in the videos I posted is fine, as I said in the original opening post. I just want to know if anyone has video footage of Gi BJJ striking being practiced in recent history in what we would think of as a BJJ school.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BFGalbraith View Post
                              No doubt, and keep in mind that is the closest thing I have seen to "army comparatives slapping in BJJ classes" video I have found anywhere on the internet.

                              So any YouTube evidence that any BJJ school trains striking outside of a dedicated MMA program is either a reference to army combatives, which I brought up in the opening statement to this thread, or it looks staged.
                              Ok. So let me try this again. MACP(Modern Army Combatives Program) at its core is Gracie Combatives. Come on dude this is publicly available information. The difference being in the early 2000s MACP went to palm strikes to the head instead of closed fist. Closed fist strikes work for civilians in ways that they don't work for Military that are deployed who knows where and won't be able to get replacements for who knows how long.

                              Striking and striking defense is a core part of "Gracie" Combatives(if you want my argument on why it should be called Maeda combatives I'll gladly give it but that is a derail). Not everything that is being trained has to have videos that you can hunt up on the interwebs. As Renzo Gracie and John Danaher wrote in their book on the subject(and you can find Danaher saying in his JRE interview) one of the principles of BJJ is to ground the opponent and thus take away the majority of the dynamism and power of potential strikes.

                              This is where I'm going to point out that you are inaccurately calling palm strikes "slaps". Clearly you have never been hit with an effective palm strike. Nor have you understood why tactically and legally they are often a better choice than a close fisted strike.

                              Anyway you just need to search Gracie Combatives and look up videos there:

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