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    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Choked out an Aikidoka, details to follow when I have more time. These guys have seriously drunk the Kool-Aid.
    This is becoming my favourite thread.....

    Comment


      Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
      Choked out an Aikidoka, details to follow when I have more time. These guys have seriously drunk the Kool-Aid.
      "I was rendered unconscious by your choke, meaning you have done me harm. Since the practice of martial arts is for the harmonious mutual benefit of both practitioners, I am therefore the victor!"

      Maybe next year, they'll include Get Choked Out by a Rabbi in the curriculum specifically.

      Comment


        So today started off with 3.5 hours of Aikido by a slew of Aikido black belts of varying dan ranks. This experience has left me horribly disillusioned with Bullshido.net. You all have over stated Aikido's effectiveness by at least 1000%. I can only guess that a number of you are being paid by Steven Seagal to bolster Aikido's reputation.

        So the first Aikidoka who, down to the orange shooting glasses, has modeled himself on Mr. Segall(excepting that he is bald) was the first up for his teaching trial. He also has(or maybe had) a low view of BJJ. So he called on me to be his demo dummy. He did this odd thing wherein, we started with arms crossed at the wrists between us on the level with our faces. He then grabs my wrist with the hand that is already extended and in contact with my arm.(Right hand grabs right wrist). He bends my arm up and out and grabs my triceps with his left hand and then expects to be able to drive me down on my belly by means of a single step and the power of his magic pants. There is precisely zero leverage that can cause me to do anything other than maybe a single compensation step.

        When I don't immediately face plant Israeli Bald Segall (IBS from now on ) tells me to stop resisting. When I stare at him with a confused expression he exasperatedly explains I'm supposed to face plant. So now knowing what he wants I obligingly lay down for him. He then kneels down on the mat with his knees behind and touching my arm, and his hands pinning it to the mat. At this point I am super confused as to what is supposed to be going on.

        He then tells me to tap when I start to feel pain, and starts pressing down on my triceps. My 10yr old daughter was putting more pressure on me just last night at our BJJ club's picnic, so I just laid there and waited. He made several adjustments and kept pressing, no tap. IBS then tells me not to risk my elbow, and to be sure to tap as soon as I feel pain.

        Now I'm on some pain meds for a couple of injuries I'm nursing, nothing serious, but I'm also on some perscription allergy meds, and the two interact every now and again and make me high AF, this was one of those times so I blame my snark on that.

        I this told IBS that my right elbow is pretty tender from being worked over from a couple overly zealous arm bars in the last few days, so if it comes anywhere near hyper extension I'll tap, or yell which ever will end the pain first. The whole class hears this and GBA snorts. So he readjusts and tries again. Still no tap.

        IBS is getting obviously frustrated. He then says:
        Even if he doesn't tap, from this position I have him immobilized, and he cannot attack me.
        Now I'm laying there thinking this guy has to be higher than I am to be spouting that kind of BS. When he says:
        I want you to try to attack me
        Proving that I was high I hesitated and asked "Are you serious?". He makes some sort of pfft noise and looks incredulous that I would ask such a thing. I look to GBA for guidance. GBA says:
        What are you waiting for, he is the Sensei, he told you to attack him. Follow his instructions.
        So I rotate my pinned arm, shrimp out, fire the knee shiled in, use that has leverage to get my arm free(he wasn't even gripping the go) then essentially roll up into a sitting position behind him, simultaneously throw in hooks and a RNC. Waited for a tap that never came. GBA then says, "He's out, let him go.". So I do.

        IBS comes to, tries to convince the class that he forgot some minor but important detail, goes through the "take down" again, spends the next 45 seconds fiddling with my arm, then says he is sure this is correct and that I should try again. I do essentially the exact same thing as before. GBA shouts "tap" as soon as I lock in the choke and so IBS doesn't take a second nap.

        IBS then says it is only because I'm so strong that I was able to do that. Now for this class we had another BJJ player join. She is a young 15yr old Green Belt(will be 16 and a blue belt before the course ends). She is also on the Israel national team and won JJIF and IBJJF gold this past winter in her age and weight class(that was what she was doing instead of finishing the winter term of this course). She weighs 52KG in gi and in no way could be considered big or strong in relation to IBS. I'll call her Renzo Gracie Girl(RGG). RGG raises her hand and says:
        I have no doubt that I can do what he just did, but faster, maybe you should just get on with your lesson.
        GBA agrees and so he has the class break up into pairs and practice. GBA allows that to go on for a few minutes, and then sees that IBS is just going around to the other Aikidokas and was ignoring the rest of the class, and calls a halt for the critique.

        His first critique was that one should not offer challenges or demos that one is not sure he can pull off. This is where Aikido really got creepy. Every single one of them started simultaneously arguing with GBA and defending their fellow Aikidoka. That went on with every criticiam of every Aikidoka. It was insane.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
          So today started off with 3.5 hours of Aikido by a slew of Aikido black belts of varying dan ranks. This experience has left me horribly disillusioned with Bullshido.net. You all have over stated Aikido's effectiveness by at least 1000%. I can only guess that a number of you are being paid by Steven Seagal to bolster Aikido's reputation.

          So the first Aikidoka who, down to the orange shooting glasses, has modeled himself on Mr. Segall(excepting that he is bald) was the first up for his teaching trial. He also has(or maybe had) a low view of BJJ. So he called on me to be his demo dummy. He did this odd thing wherein, we started with arms crossed at the wrists between us on the level with our faces. He then grabs my wrist with the hand that is already extended and in contact with my arm.(Right hand grabs right wrist). He bends my arm up and out and grabs my triceps with his left hand and then expects to be able to drive me down on my belly by means of a single step and the power of his magic pants. There is precisely zero leverage that can cause me to do anything other than maybe a single compensation step.

          When I don't immediately face plant Israeli Bald Segall (IBS from now on ) tells me to stop resisting. When I stare at him with a confused expression he exasperatedly explains I'm supposed to face plant. So now knowing what he wants I obligingly lay down for him. He then kneels down on the mat with his knees behind and touching my arm, and his hands pinning it to the mat. At this point I am super confused as to what is supposed to be going on.

          He then tells me to tap when I start to feel pain, and starts pressing down on my triceps. My 10yr old daughter was putting more pressure on me just last night at our BJJ club's picnic, so I just laid there and waited. He made several adjustments and kept pressing, no tap. IBS then tells me not to risk my elbow, and to be sure to tap as soon as I feel pain.

          Now I'm on some pain meds for a couple of injuries I'm nursing, nothing serious, but I'm also on some perscription allergy meds, and the two interact every now and again and make me high AF, this was one of those times so I blame my snark on that.

          I this told IBS that my right elbow is pretty tender from being worked over from a couple overly zealous arm bars in the last few days, so if it comes anywhere near hyper extension I'll tap, or yell which ever will end the pain first. The whole class hears this and GBA snorts. So he readjusts and tries again. Still no tap.

          IBS is getting obviously frustrated. He then says:

          Now I'm laying there thinking this guy has to be higher than I am to be spouting that kind of BS. When he says:


          Proving that I was high I hesitated and asked "Are you serious?". He makes some sort of pfft noise and looks incredulous that I would ask such a thing. I look to GBA for guidance. GBA says:

          So I rotate my pinned arm, shrimp out, fire the knee shiled in, use that has leverage to get my arm free(he wasn't even gripping the go) then essentially roll up into a sitting position behind him, simultaneously throw in hooks and a RNC. Waited for a tap that never came. GBA then says, "He's out, let him go.". So I do.

          IBS comes to, tries to convince the class that he forgot some minor but important detail, goes through the "take down" again, spends the next 45 seconds fiddling with my arm, then says he is sure this is correct and that I should try again. I do essentially the exact same thing as before. GBA shouts "tap" as soon as I lock in the choke and so IBS doesn't take a second nap.

          IBS then says it is only because I'm so strong that I was able to do that. Now for this class we had another BJJ player join. She is a young 15yr old Green Belt(will be 16 and a blue belt before the course ends). She is also on the Israel national team and won JJIF and IBJJF gold this past winter in her age and weight class(that was what she was doing instead of finishing the winter term of this course). She weighs 52KG in gi and in no way could be considered big or strong in relation to IBS. I'll call her Renzo Gracie Girl(RGG). RGG raises her hand and says:

          GBA agrees and so he has the class break up into pairs and practice. GBA allows that to go on for a few minutes, and then sees that IBS is just going around to the other Aikidokas and was ignoring the rest of the class, and calls a halt for the critique.

          His first critique was that one should not offer challenges or demos that one is not sure he can pull off. This is where Aikido really got creepy. Every single one of them started simultaneously arguing with GBA and defending their fellow Aikidoka. That went on with every criticiam of every Aikidoka. It was insane.
          My first martial art was Aikido - this kind of blind arrogance in the face of the facts that it doesn't work drove me nuts. What a bunch of douche bags.

          You have put a big smile on my face

          Comment


            Michael you’re wrong about aikido bring overrated in this site. It’s the best source of comedy this side of a fat chunner. And you really can’t make up the kind of gold posts like your last one convey.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
              So today started off with 3.5 hours of Aikido by a slew of Aikido black belts of varying dan ranks. This experience has left me horribly disillusioned with Bullshido.net. You all have over stated Aikido's effectiveness by at least 1000%. I can only guess that a number of you are being paid by Steven Seagal to bolster Aikido's reputation.

              So the first Aikidoka who, down to the orange shooting glasses, has modeled himself on Mr. Segall(excepting that he is bald) was the first up for his teaching trial. He also has(or maybe had) a low view of BJJ. So he called on me to be his demo dummy. He did this odd thing wherein, we started with arms crossed at the wrists between us on the level with our faces. He then grabs my wrist with the hand that is already extended and in contact with my arm.(Right hand grabs right wrist). He bends my arm up and out and grabs my triceps with his left hand and then expects to be able to drive me down on my belly by means of a single step and the power of his magic pants. There is precisely zero leverage that can cause me to do anything other than maybe a single compensation step.

              When I don't immediately face plant Israeli Bald Segall (IBS from now on ) tells me to stop resisting. When I stare at him with a confused expression he exasperatedly explains I'm supposed to face plant. So now knowing what he wants I obligingly lay down for him. He then kneels down on the mat with his knees behind and touching my arm, and his hands pinning it to the mat. At this point I am super confused as to what is supposed to be going on.

              He then tells me to tap when I start to feel pain, and starts pressing down on my triceps. My 10yr old daughter was putting more pressure on me just last night at our BJJ club's picnic, so I just laid there and waited. He made several adjustments and kept pressing, no tap. IBS then tells me not to risk my elbow, and to be sure to tap as soon as I feel pain.

              Now I'm on some pain meds for a couple of injuries I'm nursing, nothing serious, but I'm also on some perscription allergy meds, and the two interact every now and again and make me high AF, this was one of those times so I blame my snark on that.

              I this told IBS that my right elbow is pretty tender from being worked over from a couple overly zealous arm bars in the last few days, so if it comes anywhere near hyper extension I'll tap, or yell which ever will end the pain first. The whole class hears this and GBA snorts. So he readjusts and tries again. Still no tap.

              IBS is getting obviously frustrated. He then says:

              Now I'm laying there thinking this guy has to be higher than I am to be spouting that kind of BS. When he says:


              Proving that I was high I hesitated and asked "Are you serious?". He makes some sort of pfft noise and looks incredulous that I would ask such a thing. I look to GBA for guidance. GBA says:

              So I rotate my pinned arm, shrimp out, fire the knee shiled in, use that has leverage to get my arm free(he wasn't even gripping the go) then essentially roll up into a sitting position behind him, simultaneously throw in hooks and a RNC. Waited for a tap that never came. GBA then says, "He's out, let him go.". So I do.

              IBS comes to, tries to convince the class that he forgot some minor but important detail, goes through the "take down" again, spends the next 45 seconds fiddling with my arm, then says he is sure this is correct and that I should try again. I do essentially the exact same thing as before. GBA shouts "tap" as soon as I lock in the choke and so IBS doesn't take a second nap.

              IBS then says it is only because I'm so strong that I was able to do that. Now for this class we had another BJJ player join. She is a young 15yr old Green Belt(will be 16 and a blue belt before the course ends). She is also on the Israel national team and won JJIF and IBJJF gold this past winter in her age and weight class(that was what she was doing instead of finishing the winter term of this course). She weighs 52KG in gi and in no way could be considered big or strong in relation to IBS. I'll call her Renzo Gracie Girl(RGG). RGG raises her hand and says:

              GBA agrees and so he has the class break up into pairs and practice. GBA allows that to go on for a few minutes, and then sees that IBS is just going around to the other Aikidokas and was ignoring the rest of the class, and calls a halt for the critique.

              His first critique was that one should not offer challenges or demos that one is not sure he can pull off. This is where Aikido really got creepy. Every single one of them started simultaneously arguing with GBA and defending their fellow Aikidoka. That went on with every criticiam of every Aikidoka. It was insane.
              So, aikidoka won't pass the course?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                He did this odd thing wherein, we started with arms crossed at the wrists between us on the level with our faces. He then grabs my wrist with the hand that is already extended and in contact with my arm.(Right hand grabs right wrist). He bends my arm up and out and grabs my triceps with his left hand and then expects to be able to drive me down on my belly by means of a single step and the power of his magic pants. There is precisely zero leverage that can cause me to do anything other than maybe a single compensation step.
                Was he at least trying to manipulate your wrist? That's the only part of that whole sequence that has any shot of working, IIRC from my brief excursion into Aikido.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  So, aikidoka won't pass the course?
                  Depends on what he does at the exam. These practice sessions are so that you can get feed back. How you take that on board will determine how you do on the exam.

                  Thanks for reminding me that I'm going to have to go through several more hours of Aikido. I'm going to go get fitted for a cyanide tooth now.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by NeilG View Post
                    Was he at least trying to manipulate your wrist? That's the only part of that whole sequence that has any shot of working, IIRC from my brief excursion into Aikido.
                    On his second attempt he was. He was essentially trying to do some sort of wrist lock around his knee. So like my arm is stretched out in front of his knees, elbow up, and he is trying to bend my palm to touch the outside of his right kneed. I have fairly flexible writs, so that wasn't going to work unless he could pass a 90 degree angle at least, and then he didn't have sufficient control to hold the lock against any sort of concerted attempt to escape.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                      Depends on what he does at the exam. These practice sessions are so that you can get feed back. How you take that on board will determine how you do on the exam.

                      Thanks for reminding me that I'm going to have to go through several more hours of Aikido. I'm going to go get fitted for a cyanide tooth now.
                      GBA should make you permanent uke for the aikido.

                      Have all of them and pin you face down and see if they could keep you from getting up.

                      When you get up they have to successfully defend themselves from being strangled unconscious.

                      Pass/fail...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                        On his second attempt he was. He was essentially trying to do some sort of wrist lock around his knee. So like my arm is stretched out in front of his knees, elbow up, and he is trying to bend my palm to touch the outside of his right kneed. I have fairly flexible writs, so that wasn't going to work unless he could pass a 90 degree angle at least, and then he didn't have sufficient control to hold the lock against any sort of concerted attempt to escape.
                        The sort of thing can be made to work that require a lot of finesse and control.

                        I would put my knee on your elbow. The problem is with a well-trained Grappler he's not going to give much window of opportunity to get the position exactly right. Any slack and do you like you did.

                        And then what do you do even if you got the lock on in the guys pinned down. You'll stop fighting and hope that guy doesn't kick your ass when you let him up?

                        Comment


                          The thing about that sort of shit is that, like standing locks off the grips in judo, you have to put it on fast and hard, most likely injuring your partner in the process. The aikido way of stretching out the guy gently to the ground is only going to work on untrained people.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by BKR View Post
                            GBA should make you permanent uke for the aikido.

                            Have all of them and pin you face down and see if they could keep you from getting up.

                            When you get up they have to successfully defend themselves from being strangled unconscious.

                            Pass/fail...
                            That would dissuade me from my cyanide tooth plan. Would actually make the Aikido part enjoyable. I would in fact love that. However, thus is probably not to be the case.

                            Originally posted by BKR View Post
                            The sort of thing can be made to work that require a lot of finesse and control.

                            I would put my knee on your elbow. The problem is with a well-trained Grappler he's not going to give much window of opportunity to get the position exactly right. Any slack and do you like you did.

                            And then what do you do even if you got the lock on in the guys pinned down. You'll stop fighting and hope that guy doesn't kick your ass when you let him up?
                            Here is what they were doing(not the actual Aikidokas from the class but the same BS):


                            I really for the life of me can't understand how this is supposed to work in any possible way. I guess we all get to have our own little delusions. It certainly isn't going to immobilize anyone intent on getting up.

                            Comment


                              I always thought that if uke was generally unaware that the technique was coming and was committed going forward, if tori stretched him out hard and fast he might make it work.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                                He then grabs my wrist with the hand that is already extended and in contact with my arm.(Right hand grabs right wrist). He bends my arm up and out and grabs my triceps with his left hand and then expects to be able to drive me down on my belly by means of a single step and the power of his magic pants. There is precisely zero leverage that can cause me to do anything other than maybe a single compensation step.
                                Was the armlock similar to the one in this video at approx 1.00?



                                If so, I can testify that if done correctly it's quite painful. We have it in this kata of Nippon Kempo and two of my instructors can do it in a very painful way (something that I don't like so much when I'm used as a dummy for the demonstration). However I can't do it half as effectively. I think it's quite difficult to do because tori doesn't have a very advantageous grip on uke.
                                So I suspect the aikido guy was simply not very good at it, but since he is used to ukes that are very compliant he didn't realize it.

                                EDIT:

                                Sorry, crossposted.
                                Last edited by MisterMR; 7/06/2018 9:19am, .

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