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  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Ok some other nuggets. So I explained that there are 36 basic techniques that form the core of BJJ/GJJ that you use form white belt to black belt. An Aikido guy says:

    So I inform him that getting those down typically brings you to blue belt and that takes the average person 1.5-2yrs. He stares at me in amazement.

    Another KM guy, complained that I had them working the same technique too long:

    GBA defended me on that one, but I'm gonna go with the idea of that is part of the reason why KM sucks. No one in the room was doing an RNC correct, I had to correct them all, which in itself takes time, two or three repetitions is hardly going to build any sort of muscle memory, or even basic memory.
    One thing you might consider is that what you call techniques in BJJ GJJ might not be considered techniques and say other Japanese art.

    For example if you consider shrimping bridging if escaping and stuff like that to be techniques then for example in Judo those are not considered techniques. So in Judo as you know there's 40 basic throws and chokes arm bars and pins. Those are considered techniques in Judo.

    Now I know that the basic foundational movements postures Etc are techniques and should be taught as such which is what I do but traditionally in Judo again just as an example they're not.

    Part of your job as the coach is to have a methodology or program to relatively safely make sure people get enough repetitions of the basic foundational I'll call them techniques and stay interested in not get bored, and get some sort of physical training or workout in the process.

    The other issue is process and the way you mentioned the different Gracie schools teaching beginners shows their awareness of that in other words mount mount Escape to Kimora or armbar whatever they do. So not only are the techniques and movements foundational you're learning practical application at the same time that being a process.

    And process is what in my opinion is sorely lacking in a lot of traditional martial arts training including Judo not that judo is really a traditional martial art.

    Practical process I'm sure a lot of process gets taught a lot of that useless in the long run.

    So the challenge as an instructor is to blend technical Training with process that's interesting and provides enough of a workout for people, so that they get in better shape and actually learn something that will eventually work in a practical application did competition or self-defense or both.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Weapons now that's some beginner stuff right there.
    Dude it was a duffle bag of stuff, I mean like a full sized duffle bag, with knives, throwing stars, chain and ball things and a bunch of other assorted things, that, if searched by the police, I'm sure would get him some special attention and possible domestic terrorism charges.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Originally posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    All in all, it doesn't sound like you're in the best of companies.
    There are some good and competent people there. Not everyone got to teach, and the smarter competent people mostly held back to see what GBA really wanted. Looking back on it, I kinda wish I had done the same. After a few competent Kyokushin people went(after me), I figured out what he wanted. Especially as, I was a training partner for a lot of it with the only one he didn't criticize, so I asked her what she was assigned, and saw how she structured it, and figured out from that exactly what he was looking for.

    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    I'm not sure what's up with GB.

    On the one hand he seems like a competent at safe instructor on the other hand he seems to lack basic knowledge of ground grappling even though I believe you said he's a judo black belt?

    I can see his point about the RNC I normally wouldn't teach that in a beginners adult Judo class.

    I totally agree on the DLR.

    I think what's happening is rather than teaching a general coaching course on how to do things safely in the proper order cues Etc he is letting his own coaching philosophy dominate what he's doing.

    As it's a general coaching course that's a flaw in his part perhaps.

    Regardless of the appropriateness of the technique he should be looking at how you taught it your progression safety and all of that.

    You could be a sarcastic bastard and teach Kesa Gatame next time and the leg entanglement Escape that oughta be safe enough for him. Or Mount and mount Escape.
    Yes he definitely is teaching us how to teach according to his style. Typical for Israel. He is a competent and safe instructor. He is primarily a Kyokushin guy. He does have a Judo black belt(4th Dan), however he sees that as a add on to the Budo of his Kyokushin. I'm pretty sure I know what he wanted from me, at this point, and I'll talk to him this week to make sure I'm correct. I don't agree on submissions being too dangerous for beginners, but again that is difference of opinion I'm not willing to die on.

    He definitely thinks his philosophy is best. The test questions he sent us home with for the essays he wants us to write, prove that more than anything. I'm gonna go with the initial advice I got from my coach on this one, just roll with it and get through it, take what works, and discard the rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raycetpfl
    replied
    How to teach Gracie Jiu-Jitsu day 1 by Rayce.

    Warm up: standing up in base and breakfalls.

    Some Standing self defense should be covered.



    Choose some stuff frome the e above video.Dont throw new studends. let them throw.

    Grip breaks and and standing subs would be a good idea.

    For ground technique teach the mount escapes and show how you cant be punched in the face really in mount but you can be punched while mounted by someone. This sends the message of the importance of the escape home.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    OMFG JKN just came in in his ninja get up. It is a black Judo gi, that has been washed in bleach water to brown it out in places. It also has karate style ties seen in. He has with him a small arsenal of weapons.
    Weapons now that's some beginner stuff right there.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    He wasn't just against the choke, he was against all submissions, which, taken away doesn't leave a lot of easily teachable things in BJJ/GJJ.

    In Relson and Rorion break down of GJJ combatives the syllabus typically goes:
    1) Trap and Roll escape from mount
    2) Americana Armlock
    3) Positional control mount
    4) Back take
    5) Rear Naked Choke.

    I come from a Carlson Gracie lineage and we typically teach them like this:
    1) RNC
    2) Americana
    3) Mount
    4) Back take from mount
    5) Trap and Roll escape

    Any escape you are going to do from mount, side control, or god forbid back mount, requires a fair few basic concepts of movement(bridges, hip escapes ect). Sure I know a fair few ways to get out of a De La Riva, but like I said we don't start teaching that until Blue Belt, so that is assuming that a person already has a really firm foundation in BJJ before getting to it. Now after watching some of the people he liked, I figured out that he didn't really care if we even got to what he wanted us to teach, as long as we were teaching at least the building blocks for what he wanted.

    I probably wouldn't have gotten dinged as much, if I decided to teach a basic guard escape or mount escape, at least then when asked when I didn't teach De La Riva and it's escape, I could say that it(De La Riva) is silly advanced, so I taught something similar that was more basic.

    GBA also really wants us to have a very rigid syllabus and order in which everything is taught, which would work if you do belt tests every month and make new people just come and watch until you are ready to start to recycle the basic white belt curriculum. That just seems like an overly silly expectation for most clubs, or a fast road to burn out for an instructor.
    I think the whole rigid syllabus thing is his karate background.

    Karate like Judo in Japan was taught to kids mostly in an educational that is PE environment.

    Huge classes kids without any experience or basic athletic ability, + + + type of culture wear fitting in and not standing out is the norm. In that kind of environment you can't hope for a lot of skill development quickly.

    A lot of traditional Judo training methods I think have their root in that sort of system.

    Jiu Jitsu on the other hand is much more personalized and westernized and its approach which makes sense because Brazilians came up with it.

    It sounds like you'll pass the course with no problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • ghost55
    replied
    Brazilian anything. Rigid. Uh, no.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Ok some other nuggets. So I explained that there are 36 basic techniques that form the core of BJJ/GJJ that you use form white belt to black belt. An Aikido guy says:
    I thought BJJ was complicated, but if there are only 36 basic techniques that isn't complicated
    So I inform him that getting those down typically brings you to blue belt and that takes the average person 1.5-2yrs. He stares at me in amazement.

    Another KM guy, complained that I had them working the same technique too long:
    You should show your student a technique, have them do it two maybe three times at most, and then move on to something new.
    GBA defended me on that one, but I'm gonna go with the idea of that is part of the reason why KM sucks. No one in the room was doing an RNC correct, I had to correct them all, which in itself takes time, two or three repetitions is hardly going to build any sort of muscle memory, or even basic memory.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    I'm not sure what's up with GB.

    On the one hand he seems like a competent at safe instructor on the other hand he seems to lack basic knowledge of ground grappling even though I believe you said he's a judo black belt?

    I can see his point about the RNC I normally wouldn't teach that in a beginners adult Judo class.

    I totally agree on the DLR.

    I think what's happening is rather than teaching a general coaching course on how to do things safely in the proper order cues Etc he is letting his own coaching philosophy dominate what he's doing.

    As it's a general coaching course that's a flaw in his part perhaps.

    Regardless of the appropriateness of the technique he should be looking at how you taught it your progression safety and all of that.

    You could be a sarcastic bastard and teach Kesa Gatame next time and the leg entanglement Escape that oughta be safe enough for him. Or Mount and mount Escape.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tranquil Suit
    replied
    All in all, it doesn't sound like you're in the best of companies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Originally posted by ermghoti View Post
    Given the parameters of the exercise, the submission thing is kind of right, although the literal first things you're showing a BJJ class are probably bridging, shrimping, and maybe seated rearward breakfalls or something, which would be quite dull. The other points are pretty stupid, IMO.
    Well when I gotta go again, I'll have a few more things planned out. If he goes with De La Riva again(which he might given the way he runs his course) I'll teach a basic guard pass. if he hasn't called stop by the time that is over, I'll then teach how to shut down a basic guard pass with an open guard sweep(except half the people aren't in gis of any sort so De La Riva is still impossible to teach), hopefully by this point he'll have called a stop, otherwise I'll transition into how to stop said basic sweep. Then De La Riva to shut that down... Which brings me back to the point that De La Riva isn't meant for beginners in any fashion.

    Leave a comment:


  • ermghoti
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    He dings me for not teaching what he told me to, and asks why I didn't and I explain. He says that BJJ submissions are, in his opinion, are too dangerous to be taught to beginners, so I should have gone with something as similar as possible. He didn't like that I didn't make the people who didn't want to do it either do it or leave the room. Finally I got dinged for making sure that everyone was doing it correctly, they'll learn over time.
    Given the parameters of the exercise, the submission thing is kind of right, although the literal first things you're showing a BJJ class are probably bridging, shrimping, and maybe seated rearward breakfalls or something, which would be quite dull. The other points are pretty stupid, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Originally posted by NeilG View Post
    I'd agree with GBA, a choke is not the thing I'd teach as an introductory lesson. Of course I'm judo not BJJ, maybe you guys have a different approach to such things.
    He wasn't just against the choke, he was against all submissions, which, taken away doesn't leave a lot of easily teachable things in BJJ/GJJ.

    In Relson and Rorion break down of GJJ combatives the syllabus typically goes:
    1) Trap and Roll escape from mount
    2) Americana Armlock
    3) Positional control mount
    4) Back take
    5) Rear Naked Choke.

    I come from a Carlson Gracie lineage and we typically teach them like this:
    1) RNC
    2) Americana
    3) Mount
    4) Back take from mount
    5) Trap and Roll escape

    Any escape you are going to do from mount, side control, or god forbid back mount, requires a fair few basic concepts of movement(bridges, hip escapes ect). Sure I know a fair few ways to get out of a De La Riva, but like I said we don't start teaching that until Blue Belt, so that is assuming that a person already has a really firm foundation in BJJ before getting to it. Now after watching some of the people he liked, I figured out that he didn't really care if we even got to what he wanted us to teach, as long as we were teaching at least the building blocks for what he wanted.

    I probably wouldn't have gotten dinged as much, if I decided to teach a basic guard escape or mount escape, at least then when asked when I didn't teach De La Riva and it's escape, I could say that it(De La Riva) is silly advanced, so I taught something similar that was more basic.

    GBA also really wants us to have a very rigid syllabus and order in which everything is taught, which would work if you do belt tests every month and make new people just come and watch until you are ready to start to recycle the basic white belt curriculum. That just seems like an overly silly expectation for most clubs, or a fast road to burn out for an instructor.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeilG
    replied
    I'd agree with GBA, a choke is not the thing I'd teach as an introductory lesson. Of course I'm judo not BJJ, maybe you guys have a different approach to such things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Tzadok
    replied
    Ok so today started with GBA giving us all a very active hour and a half Kyokushin lesson to both show us how it is done and also with a couple of mistakes he wanted us to register. I'm still worn out and sore from my kettlenells and BJJ yesterday so that was just painful, though fun.

    We then got started with student lead lessons. The first guy to go was an Aikido guy. Yeah that was just a confusing. Lots of bowing and walking in circles. I'll just say that HM's videos on Aikido are overly generous and clearly HM either has no Aikido experience or he has a crush on Steven Segall and is hoping to arrange a hook up via his complimentary videos. Because I know(now after seeing her and some others laughing over this thread on break) that she will read this, I will say that the one exception was the lady who learned Judo and Aikido in Japan. Though I suspect her skill comes from her Judo and her Aikido is just complimentary.

    There were some karate guys that went next. Lots of front snap kicks, reverse punches and other basic karate stuff. Followed by a JJJ guy. He didn't get to finish his turn. GBA shut him down because his instruction was so horrendous that GBA was genuinely afraid someone was going to get hurt.

    Then it was my turn. GBA gave me these instructions:
    Teach like this is their very first class and none of them have any clue about BJJ. Show them how to enter De La Riva and then escape from it.
    To me those instructions were self contradictory, we don't teach De La Riva at my club until people hit blue belt. So I plowed ahead with my original plan, and taught RNC. I show it and explain it on one guy. He taps before I even get it fully locked up. So I had to really loosen my arms to show the breathing and shrug bit. Then I trade out demonstration partners he also taps quick.

    There is a KM guy there who is convinced that his three years of IDF conscript service in a commando unit makes him equal to a Delta Force Operator. So we'll call him Delta Force Wannabe(DFW). Now DFW is in really good shape, as he runs a prep program for soldiers. He has also bought into the whole Cardio beats RNC trope, so he claims that it won't really work.
    So I look at GBA, GBA shrugs, so I offer DFW the chance to resist. I have him hold one hand in the air, and tell him I'll concede defeat at 15 seconds. He grins at me. JKN eagerly offers to be time keeper. I pop the choke in, wait for him to tap, his arm falls limp to the floor, JKN shouts the Hebrew equivalent of
    Holy shit that was only 4 seconds.
    . DFW comes to and is a little disoriented. He doesn't understand exactly what happened. Another army KM guy says
    Brother you took an unplanned nap
    So I break them into partner groups, and have them work on the choke. JKN is the only ninja that is willing to do it. A couple of Karate people also refuse. I get dinged for the refusals for some reason.

    After I get through correcting the last couple, GBA calls a halt. He dings me for not teaching what he told me to, and asks why I didn't and I explain. He says that BJJ submissions are, in his opinion, are too dangerous to be taught to beginners, so I should have gone with something as similar as possible. He didn't like that I didn't make the people who didn't want to do it either do it or leave the room. Finally I got dinged for making sure that everyone was doing it correctly, they'll learn over time.

    JKN went after me. He taught how, when someone shoves you, you can redirect their push, get behind them and break their neck. No, I'm not joking, that is the response he taught to getting shoved. When someone asked him where the leverage would come from to reliably break the neck, he changed it up to the RNC that I taught.
    Yeah let's switch it to that awesome BJJ choke we learned.
    .
    I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.

    Leave a comment:

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