Cardio beats a RNC

[Raycetpfl]

One thing that I really don't know how to do very well and can't really physically do anymore are the lifts can you point me in the direction of some drills I can use to help my students get the hang of whole back counter thing better?

And yeah knocking nmf out with a head and arm throw is probably outside the safety guidelines.

Have them go to a wall,stand about 2 foot or so away, lean backwards and walk themselves on their hands to the ground and then walk their hands back up.

[Michael Tzadok]

One thing that I really don't know how to do very well and can't really physically do anymore are the lifts can you point me in the direction of some drills I can use to help my students get the hang of whole back counter thing better?

And yeah knocking nmf out with a head and arm throw is probably outside the safety guidelines.

OK, first of all, I can teach my grandmother with osteoporosis how to do lifts. So if you have two working arms and two working legs you can do lifts. You just can't do lifts with bad form anymore. I've searched the interwebs for a video that demonstrates how to properly do a lift, and I can't find one. So let me start you with two on a seat belt toss then explain things a bit more:

Now here is the thing with a lift, if you pull with your back it is only a matter of time before you get injured. Yes I know that is what it looks like to the untrained eye, but that is not what these guys are doing. What you are really doing, is pushing with your hips, to get your hips under your opponent and thus their weight resting on your pelvic girdle. Your knees should be out beyond your toes, and your butt should be above your heels. Simultaneously you are going to back arch to get your weight headed behind you. This is the core to any suplex and it is the reason why I was able to teach a 55kg woman to suplex a 130kg man in about a half hour(Front headlock suplex which is the easiest one but still).

Now as far as drills my favorite dill, I also can't find a video of, but it teaches the most basic technique, so I will try to explain it here in detail. Have two people stand facing each other about arm's distance apart. The Uke does a hand stand and allows his feet to fall toward the Torri. Torri guides the legs so that one ends up on each shoulder. He then grasps the knees. The Uke will begin to do a sit up. The Tori will push his hips forward under the Uke and arch his back. Again he is pushing with his hips not pulling with his back. The Uke sits all the way up until he is hugging the Torri's head. Torri then lets down one leg, then the other. Uke steps back and repeats. 3-10 revolutions then switch. Makes for a good warm up.

Then there are some more advanced drills:

[BKR]

Have them go to a wall,stand about 2 foot or so away, lean backwards and walk themselves on their hands to the ground and then walk their hands back up.

I think I tried that one unfortunately they needed a bit more prep work before going quite that far

[BKR]

OK, first of all, I can teach my grandmother with osteoporosis how to do lifts. So if you have two working arms and two working legs you can do lifts. You just can't do lifts with bad form anymore. I've searched the interwebs for a video that demonstrates how to properly do a lift, and I can't find one. So let me start you with two on a seat belt toss then explain things a bit more:

Now here is the thing with a lift, if you pull with your back it is only a matter of time before you get injured. Yes I know that is what it looks like to the untrained eye, but that is not what these guys are doing. What you are really doing, is pushing with your hips, to get your hips under your opponent and thus their weight resting on your pelvic girdle. Your knees should be out beyond your toes, and your butt should be above your heels. Simultaneously you are going to back arch to get your weight headed behind you. This is the core to any suplex and it is the reason why I was able to teach a 55kg woman to suplex a 130kg man in about a half hour(Front headlock suplex which is the easiest one but still).

Now as far as drills my favorite dill, I also can't find a video of, but it teaches the most basic technique, so I will try to explain it here in detail. Have two people stand facing each other about arm's distance apart. The Uke does a hand stand and allows his feet to fall toward the Torri. Torri guides the legs so that one ends up on each shoulder. He then grasps the knees. The Uke will begin to do a sit up. The Tori will push his hips forward under the Uke and arch his back. Again he is pushing with his hips not pulling with his back. The Uke sits all the way up until he is hugging the Torri's head. Torri then lets down one leg, then the other. Uke steps back and repeats. 3-10 revolutions then switch. Makes for a good warm up.

Then there are some more advanced drills:

Thanks so much Michael the one in which you give the detailed written description I've actually seen it done before but it's been a long time and I had forgotten about it.
It wasn't really done in the context of lifts either it was more just kind of a exercise.

I get the part about using the hips. We've been working on Ura Nage because one of my students is prepping to test for his black belt. The hardest part is teaching them how to lift from the hips.

My fault really I didn't pay enough attention to it over the years.

There are a couple of guys on the Judo Canada Junior and Cadet seen that do a lot of lifts that's counter throws.

Both of them are massively strong for their size and age and my students think that's what you have to be to be able to do them.

This will help me convince them otherwise.

[BKR]

And just a comment on the broader context of training videos on the internet.

I think there is quite a bit of fundamental training that doesn't show up there.

Maybe people just take it for granted.

[Michael Tzadok]

Thanks so much Michael the one in which you give the detailed written description I've actually seen it done before but it's been a long time and I had forgotten about it.
It wasn't really done in the context of lifts either it was more just kind of a exercise.

I get the part about using the hips. We've been working on Ura Nage because one of my students is prepping to test for his black belt. The hardest part is teaching them how to lift from the hips.

My fault really I didn't pay enough attention to it over the years.

There are a couple of guys on the Judo Canada Junior and Cadet seen that do a lot of lifts that's counter throws.

Both of them are massively strong for their size and age and my students think that's what you have to be to be able to do them.

This will help me convince them otherwise.

Yeah you don't have to be over strong, especially if you don't want to keep the guy up long. By popping the hips in, low enough and hard enough, you get the same basic effect as an Ippon Seo Nagi, it is litterally the same principle for the lift, just in reverse.

As far as the sit up thing, yeah I've seen a lot of people who didn't understand it, but just copied it, use it as just an exercise. That usually results in the Torri using bad form and pulling with his back. Taught right it is a great exercise/drill to work both guys simultaneously.

[Michael Tzadok]

And just a comment on the broader context of training videos on the internet.

I think there is quite a bit of fundamental training that doesn't show up there.

Maybe people just take it for granted.

Yeah lifts are one of the basic fundamentals of wrestling. You are are hard pressed to find video of most of them online. Especially the ones where doing it wrong can get someone hurt.

[BJMills]

Guys, WTF!?!? This thread is becoming entirely to productive and informative.

I need more ninjers and chunners!

[BKR]

Yeah lifts are one of the basic fundamentals of wrestling. You are are hard pressed to find video of most of them online. Especially the ones where doiyng it wrong can get someone hurt.

<<<Insert joke about the real deadly >>>

I'm going to go to my local high school wrestling team.

[The Cap]

There are a couple of guys on the Judo Canada Junior and Cadet seen that do a lot of lifts that's counter throws.

Both of them are massively strong for their size and age and my students think that's what you have to be to be able to do them.

Are you perhaps describing some U21 winning Viking from the West coast? I used to coach Tristan some six years ago before my knees quit judo (it was them, I swear, not me). He was just a skinny fourteen year old of barely 100 kilos then. If these surgeries ever pan out and I get back on the mat... Well I just hope I have some carryover respect left from then. 0_0

[The Cap]

I also have a wicked head and arm that has, from time to time, been known to knock a MF out. Though concussing a ninjer may not meet the safety expectations of the course.

Please describe this further. I'm imagining something like a head first koshi guruma, but all the supposedly deadly throw variations I've heard about have always been exaggerations. I haven't witnessed anything beyond a bad breakfall or good suplex hurt someone.

[Raycetpfl]

I think I tried that one unfortunately they needed a bit more prep work before going quite that far

Have you tried making them wear pink belts and insulting them until they try harder?

[Michael Tzadok]

<<<Insert joke about the real deadly >>>

I'm going to go to my local high school wrestling team.

Yeah if popping a disc in your own back is the real deadly...

I give you a 50/50 chance of learning how to properly do a lift at a high school. You still get a lot of guys and a lot of coaches at that level teaching kids to pull with their backs. That was what I did until Anatoly Petrosyan asked me if I was trying to hurt my back to get out of practice.

Here is a video of Anatoly doing speed dummy work. Notice the hip pops:

[Michael Tzadok]

Please describe this further. I'm imagining something like a head first koshi guruma, but all the supposedly deadly throw variations I've heard about have always been exaggerations. I haven't witnessed anything beyond a bad breakfall or good suplex hurt someone.

Well there are two ways a knock out could(and has happened).

First the guy resists and his head impacts on the way down(start at 2:45 mark):

Secondly, and the method that I prefer because I come from the Eastern PA-South Jersey grindy school of wrestling is to really punch your arm into place, and from the force of your biceps slamming into the side of his neck, especially if he tenses or goes the wrong way, I've seen that lead to a few knockouts.

To be clear, especially against trained grapplers, it is a really low percentage knock out. The forces are there though and it has happened.

[The Cap]

[T]he method that I prefer because I come from the Eastern PA-South Jersey grindy school of wrestling is to really punch your arm into place, and from the force of your biceps slamming into the side of his neck, especially if he tenses or goes the wrong way, I've seen that lead to a few knockouts.

Daaamn... My old man used to tell me that once I got a lapel grip I should go into osoto gari by trying to punch my opponent in the chin, but even then I've never seen a throw entry knock someone out. Shatter a knee yes, but...

First the guy resists and his head impacts on the way down.

To be clear, especially against trained grapplers, it is a really low percentage knock out. The forces are there though and it has happened.

Yeah, this here is generally what I've witnessed.