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Self Defense decision (again ... grab the sticks Ill get the horse)

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    #16
    I have a brown belt in judo so I'm not totally "ignorant" in term of gabbling. I stopped my judo training 15 years ago( i'm now 38) because of my knees.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
      Most actual situations in which you would be able to justifiably deploy a knife, will happen too fast for your to actually deploy the knife before you are fully engaged(generally the same can be said about firearms).
      Really good point.

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        #18
        The other problem with a knife is the use-of-force/legal ramifications, which have been mentioned, but bear elaboration.

        Knife vrs unarmed: good for the guy with the knife, also, a felony.
        Knife vs knife: not good for either guy. The winner is at best headed for a long recovery from his wounds. Better to flee, it's tough to simultaneously deploy a knife and run away, but it can help, I guess.
        Knife vs blunt object: reach issue. If the object in question is significantly longer than the knife, the guy with the knife has problems. Better to flee.
        Knife vs firearm: guy with the knife is probably dead. Under ideal circumstances, he might take the guy with the gun with him. Better to flee.

        So, given that legitimate knife training is every bit as strenuous and hard on the body as any hand to hand fighting style, unless you just really like knives, your time is probably better spent elsewhere.
        "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

        Originally posted by strikistanian
        DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
        Originally posted by Devil
        Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
        Originally posted by Plasma
        At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
        Originally posted by SoulMechanic
        Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Gropette View Post
          I have a brown belt in judo so I'm not totally "ignorant" in term of gabbling. I stopped my judo training 15 years ago( i'm now 38) because of my knees.
          Any effective SD training will be harder on your knees than walking around or sitting on the couch watching krav maga fantasy videos. By effective, I mean alive training, like you used to do in Judo.
          Falling for Judo since 1980

          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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            #20
            Originally posted by BKR View Post
            Any effective SD training will be harder on your knees than walking around or sitting on the couch watching krav maga fantasy videos. By effective, I mean alive training, like you used to do in Judo.
            I guess its all about compromise. I'm pretty active . I'm doing 8k rucking (with 50 pounds on my back ) and weight lifting. But, there is still a big difference between that and how judo can be hard on your knees and you body in general. Of course Judo is better than BJJ for self defense. But the price you pay is also higher(more prone to injury and wear & tears). I think it also apply to any art. Its either you pay at the gym or you pay on the ring(or the street). At the end, the bill is the same.

            Actually the more I think about it the more I leaning toward boxing + bjj.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Gropette View Post
              I guess its all about compromise. I'm pretty active . I'm doing 8k rucking (with 50 pounds on my back ) and weight lifting. But, there is still a big difference between that and how judo can be hard on your knees and you body in general. Of course Judo is better than BJJ for self defense. But the price you pay is also higher(more prone to injury and wear & tears). I think it also apply to any art. Its either you pay at the gym or you pay on the ring(or the street). At the end, the bill is the same.

              Actually the more I think about it the more I leaning toward boxing + bjj.
              If you are specifically interested in SD, then as Rayce pointed out, Gracie Jiu Jitsu(tm) has a definite program for that. Depending on where you are in Canada, you may be able to get into their program. Generally not cheap, though.

              BJJ comes in different flavors, with some clubs being mostly sport oriented, others mixing in more SD oriented training.

              The problem with Judo is that there are not many clubs/schools that have any sort of self defense curriculum, in Canada or the USA.

              Boxing plus BJJ or GJJ sounds good to me. Boxing won't stress your knees.

              Be prepared to be shocked when/if you get into BJJ/GJJ versus your Judo training.

              If you are 8k rucking and lifting weights, you can handle BJJ.
              Falling for Judo since 1980

              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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                #22
                I can tell you stick and knife is hard on the knees also. I had to have surgery on my right knee for a torn ACL and meniscus tendon removal. But to be fair, that was when I was doing full contact sparring and the knee was actually injured when I was in the lock down position in half mount and was trying to pass. But I've done wrestling and stick fighting after my surgery and both are as hard on my knee as the other. Wrestling mostly when doing penetration steps to achieve takedowns. But when I fight off my back there are no knee issues. When doing BJJ as long as I have a knee pad on, no issues. Depending on what your knee issue is, I would go with BJJ.

                Oh and my answer to the reason to train in stick and knife fighting is because it's fun. I don't carry a knife, I carry a gun. But I have sticks planted all over my house and car and would be very confident fighting anyone with a stick unless they had a gun. Empty hands vs stick, knife vs stick, stick vs stick I would gladly participate in.
                Combatives training log.

                Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                Drum thread

                Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

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                  #23
                  BJJ hands down. Lets face it, it doesnt take much training to use a knife effectively against an untrained attacker (your average SD situation). BJJ will teach you a critical aspect of fighting (clench / ground) and will give you a lot of pressure testing. Thats the biggest issue with the RBSD stuff, little to no pressure testing (full sparring) which means you never truly know if a particular technique will work for you.

                  Having done stand up, RBSD, and BJJ; BJJ is the one I would recommend first.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Ethikos View Post
                    BJJ hands down. Lets face it, it doesnt take much training to use a knife effectively against an untrained attacker (your average SD situation). BJJ will teach you a critical aspect of fighting (clench / ground) and will give you a lot of pressure testing. Thats the biggest issue with the RBSD stuff, little to no pressure testing (full sparring) which means you never truly know if a particular technique will work for you.

                    Having done stand up, RBSD, and BJJ; BJJ is the one I would recommend first.
                    In addition to this, I like BJJ because I can way more easily control the amount of force while still being effective. The same gentle techniques I used on a drunk acquaintance who needed to be called down can be cranked up to 11 to do serious damage if I were fighting for my life. No extra muscle memory required. No "too deadly to spar" theoretical techniques needed.

                    Plus, as said before, I get to pressure test it against skilled opponents several days per week. I know it works.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by kendamu View Post
                      In addition to this, I like BJJ because I can way more easily control the amount of force while still being effective. The same gentle techniques I used on a drunk acquaintance who needed to be called down can be cranked up to 11 to do serious damage if I were fighting for my life. No extra muscle memory required. No "too deadly to spar" theoretical techniques needed.

                      Plus, as said before, I get to pressure test it against skilled opponents several days per week. I know it works.
                      You'll fit in well here.
                      Ne Obliviscaris

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                        #26
                        I'd be another to chime in in favour of Jiu Jitsu. It's a self defence art, that only becomes ground work if it ends up on the ground, or you take it there. Since a high percentage of encounters end up in a grappling exchange that can lead to the ground, it'd be nice to have if you fail to empty an assailant with your boxing, or big ass Judo throw.

                        I have bad knees too, and there's some good braces and pads out there that make a world of difference!

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Ethikos View Post
                          BJJ hands down. Lets face it, it doesnt take much training to use a knife effectively against an untrained attacker (your average SD situation).
                          sorry, but that's a load of hogwash. your "untrained" attacker/"average" sd goon wouldn't attack unless:

                          1. he has the advantage of surprise or
                          2. he has the advantage of experience or
                          3. he has the advantage of being crazy, either innate or by chemicals.

                          most sd training that spars focuses on #3, the usual bar scenario. those that don't spar thinks that their "training" is effective against #1 and #2.

                          and as rabbi mike t. said, being able to draw your knife timely is hard. it takes a lot of training to do it safely and effectively. not to mention sticking it in in a way that it creates immediate damage. sparring creates the necessary body language that says you're willing to stick it into him, but it's only a part of the equation. the other parts include test cutting with raw/live meat, proper concealment that facilitates accessibility, proper blade orientation via touch during grappling/ low light conditions, proper articulation of justifications, etc.

                          easy against an "untrained" attacker? think again.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by baby_cart View Post
                            sorry, but that's a load of hogwash. your "untrained" attacker/"average" sd goon wouldn't attack unless:

                            1. he has the advantage of surprise or
                            2. he has the advantage of experience or
                            3. he has the advantage of being crazy, either innate or by chemicals.

                            most sd training that spars focuses on #3, the usual bar scenario. those that don't spar thinks that their "training" is effective against #1 and #2.

                            and as rabbi mike t. said, being able to draw your knife timely is hard. it takes a lot of training to do it safely and effectively. not to mention sticking it in in a way that it creates immediate damage. sparring creates the necessary body language that says you're willing to stick it into him, but it's only a part of the equation. the other parts include test cutting with raw/live meat, proper concealment that facilitates accessibility, proper blade orientation via touch during grappling/ low light conditions, proper articulation of justifications, etc.

                            easy against an "untrained" attacker? think again.
                            I think that there is a problem of half full/half empty glass here.

                            It is obvious that having a knife is a big advantage in a confrontation (putting aside ethical concerns), just think how difficult is to hurt seriously someone with a punch VS how difficult with a sharp blade.
                            Now if what you want is to be 100% sure to be able to defeat anyone if you have a knife, this is more difficult.

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                              #29
                              The real answer is carry a rapier or gladius and learn swordsmanship. Sure you will look like a fucking doof but there are some bright sides.
                              1.You won't have to get into fights over women. No chick wants to hang with the weirdo always walking around with a sword on his waist.

                              2. You won't have to look for a letter opener.

                              2.
                              The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                                The real answer is carry a rapier or gladius and learn swordsmanship. Sure you will look like a fucking doof but there are some bright sides.
                                1.You won't have to get into fights over women. No chick wants to hang with the weirdo always walking around with a sword on his waist.

                                2. You won't have to look for a letter opener.

                                2.
                                You can get around the disadvantages by carrying a sword stick. Everyone thinks you're just a pimp with a cane until it's too late

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