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Ancient Greek pankrationist wins by toehold, dies.

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    Ancient Greek pankrationist wins by toehold, dies.

    I've always liked history and came across this particular story in a coffee table book on Ancient Greek sports culture:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

    Long story short, the pankrationist Arrhichion was caught in a choke by his opponent in a match, yet said opponent appears to have forgotten the BJJ 101 rule of Don't Cross Your Feet While Attempting RNCs. Arrhichion then broke his opponent's foot or toe, causing him to submit. Unfortunately, he then died shortly thereafter from the choke. While the mechanics involved are a bit sketchy (possibly a crushed trachea rather than blood choke), it is still a cool warstory of truly old-school submission wrestling.

    There's a number of funny stories regarding Ancient Greek sports, another good one relating the tale of how a horseman's horse was declared the Olympic champion for winning the race after bucking off the rider, but the story of Arrhichion has always been my favourite, however unlikely it is.

    #2
    Well, the Greeks wouldn't lie to us,would they?

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      #3
      Originally posted by SneakyGoblin View Post
      Well, the Greeks wouldn't lie to us,would they?
      No more than the Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans.

      Doesn't anyone else find it odd that no one bothered to find out and record the name of the person who brought death to the most famous pancrationist in human history? Arrhichion apparently suffered from a Greek dim mak, and noone knows the name of the guy who obviously had t3h rheel pancration?

      Arrichion was obviously killed by a ninja, and I'm using this as evidence to support my theory that all cultures have ninjas, and the ones in Japan just suck.

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        #4
        Originally posted by GrouchyOldMan View Post
        No more than the Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans.

        Doesn't anyone else find it odd that no one bothered to find out and record the name of the person who brought death to the most famous pancrationist in human history? Arrhichion apparently suffered from a Greek dim mak, and noone knows the name of the guy who obviously had t3h rheel pancration?

        Arrichion was obviously killed by a ninja, and I'm using this as evidence to support my theory that all cultures have ninjas, and the ones in Japan just suck.
        But the Dim-mak guy still lost the game. Which is always the problem of Dim-mak: what is the point of a deadly technique if the opponent still has the time to beat you?

        This is the reason I left the Dim-mak route and now work on Ki attacks and Kiai defense.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MisterMR View Post
          But the Dim-mak guy still lost the game. Which is always the problem of Dim-mak: what is the point of a deadly technique if the opponent still has the time to beat you?

          This is the reason I left the Dim-mak route and now work on Ki attacks and Kiai defense.
          The guy who lost walked with a limp for a few weeks, and the winner died.

          This is a perfect illustration of sports being useless in a real fight.

          Comment


            #6
            This is what happens in sport:



            Tappin' to leg locks is for pussies.

            Comment


              #7
              Once in a turkish oil wrestling match my opponent died while supplexing me (for him it was very unfortunate that my foot was stuck knee deep into his ass - no homo)

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                #8
                Originally posted by Sam Losco View Post
                Once in a turkish oil wrestling match my opponent died while supplexing me (for him it was very unfortunate that my foot was stuck knee deep into his ass - no homo)
                So...you lost that match?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by DCS View Post
                  This is what happens in sport:



                  Tappin' to leg locks is for pussies.
                  That leg is so fucked lol. Even Renzo would have tapped to that

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by GrouchyOldMan View Post
                    So...you lost that match?
                    Yes - surgery was needed with the "leg/ass issue" and unfortunately it resulted to opponents death

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DCS View Post
                      This is what happens in sport:



                      Tappin' to leg locks is for pussies.
                      c'est reveur.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Shawarma View Post
                        I've always liked history and came across this particular story in a coffee table book on Ancient Greek sports culture:

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhichion

                        Long story short, the pankrationist Arrhichion was caught in a choke by his opponent in a match, yet said opponent appears to have forgotten the BJJ 101 rule of Don't Cross Your Feet While Attempting RNCs. Arrhichion then broke his opponent's foot or toe, causing him to submit. Unfortunately, he then died shortly thereafter from the choke. While the mechanics involved are a bit sketchy (possibly a crushed trachea rather than blood choke), it is still a cool warstory of truly old-school submission wrestling.

                        There's a number of funny stories regarding Ancient Greek sports, another good one relating the tale of how a horseman's horse was declared the Olympic champion for winning the race after bucking off the rider, but the story of Arrhichion has always been my favourite, however unlikely it is.
                        The longer version on the wiki page you posted seems quite likely.
                        Guy has back with hooks in and a decent RNC. Arrichion doesn't submit because his trainer is urging him not to as Philostratus writes in Gymnasticus 21
                        When Arrichion, the pankratiast, who had won already two Olympic games and after this fought in the third olympiad in the finals, already thought about submitting, his trainer Eryxias brought him to despise death by shouting from outside the ring: "What a wonderful funaral speech if one can say: he did not give up at Olympia."
                        So Arrichion is getting choked to death, maybe starts some feeble defense, when his body goes into death spasm, causing him to flop down on his left and break his opponent's ankle. The judge/referee of the match doesn't realize that Arrichion is yet unconscious/dead(hey it even happens in modern MMA with our much superior medical knowledge and training). Guy with broken ankle lets go and submits, also not realizing he has actually already won. Lacking good medical knowledge, the Greeks assume that Arrichion's death spasms were actually him still fighting and that death claimed him after his opponent submitted and he is awarded the win.

                        Never underestimate what a bad understanding of science can do to observation. We are talking about people who thought that fleas and lice spontaneously formed out of sand, maggots spontaneously formed from meat, and dinosaur fossils were impressions left over from when the gods emanated the creation and got their aim a bit wrong. I have no problem believing the generalities of the account while making allowance for some details being slightly off on account of poor understanding of the physical sciences.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          There are actually a few really good descriptions, from ancient Greek documents, about RNC's with uncannily modern details-- like having hooks sunk in and tap-out to signal forfeiture. Over in the Historical Discussion thread, in MABS, I posted these two descriptions, years ago.

                          First comes from Lucian's Anacharsis, in the second century:

                          Then, having fallen upon him, he does not allow the man to lift up his head, pressing the man’s head into the mud. And to finish him off now, having twined his legs around him along the man’s belly, having laid his forearm under the man’s throat, he strangles the poor guy, and the poor guy pats his strangler’s shoulder, begging, I suppose, that he not strangle him to death.

                          The second is from Nonnos' Dionysiaca in the fifth century:

                          And having thrown the man completely spread out in the dust
                          Aiakos got on the middle of his opponent’s back
                          And sending his outstretched feet along under the spread out stomach,
                          Binding together a bent bond around just above the knees,
                          He pressed sole on sole and encircled the ankles to their outermost tips;
                          And having quickly stretched himself over his opponent’s back,
                          And winding his hands over each other like a wreath,
                          He cast a bond on the neck with his arm, having bent his fingers;
                          He drenched the heaped up sand with soaking wet sweat,
                          Cleaning off the running drops with dry sand,
                          So that the entwined man might not slip through the knot of his hands
                          While sending hot moisture down from his squeezed neck.
                          And while he was being squeezed by the sharp palm
                          The heralds chosen as overseers of the games wandered over,
                          So that the forearm with the yoked-together lifting-strap would not kill him.
                          For there was not at that time such a rule, which their
                          descendants made later on, that when a man is overwhelmed
                          by the strangled pain of necks being stretched by bonds
                          he gives over the victory to his wrestling opponent with sensible silence,
                          having tapped the winning man with a shameful hand.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think that might be the most poetic description of dude-strangling I've ever read.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sam Losco View Post
                              Yes - surgery was needed with the "leg/ass issue" and unfortunately it resulted to opponents death
                              Hancock would have approved.

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