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    #16
    I thank you very much!! Rest well!

    Comment


      #17
      Hey guys as the resident Israeli I will weigh in here.

      KM sucks. Everyone here who needs actual H2H knows that and trains something else. Ben Gurion airport security for instance train BJJ.

      To become certified to teach BJJ in this country you have to(btw you have to be certified to teach hip hop or any sport for insurance reasons and governmental control of a sort):

      1) Have a blue belt in BJJ
      2) Have a certified instructor(can be another blue belt) say that you know your stuff well enough to instruct
      3) Have a certified instructor sign off on a form saying that you spent at least 3yrs in combat sports
      4) Pay 7500 shekel(just over $2000USD) for a 5 week course at the Wingate, and pass their tests.
      Here is the link for the course:
      http://www.wingate.org.il/Index.asp?...&ArticleID=372

      Certification from Wingate does not imply any ability or skill. It is primarily a course in physiology, class safety, teaching methods, and a few other things. My own BJJ coach sent me when I got my blue belt because he wanted me to teach Freestyle Wrestling in our club. His advice was, "Do what they tell you, give them the answers that they want, then you can forget it all."

      Nathan, you said you learned KM? Was this at a private club or in the Army? If it was in the Army how were you able to expatriate to Florida, as KM is only taught to Kravi(combat) units in the Army and they have to do, depending on specific unit up to 20yrs of miluim(reserve duty). Please answer honestly because you may be asked to show your teudat shichrur(Israeli version of DD214) to prove what you say.
      Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

      "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
        Hey everyone
        I really enjoyed this website!

        I have to say that the forum is very much bullshido attitude but it is okay since a lot of fakes are all around

        anyway my name is Nathan, USSR Born grew up in Israel, residing in South Florida
        Karate, Judo, Jujitsu was my childhood experiences while growing up
        13 to 15 boxing
        15 until 26 is some BJJ/Wrestling and a lot of striking from all types of Kickboxing and Muay Thai...
        Lets just say MMA

        off course as an Israeli I also know Krav Maga it is very simple and very common for us

        I wanted to ask you guys over here in the U.S. how do you real (i hope) martial artists and other people in the US look at Krav Maga...
        Is it marketable? is MMA more popular? I guess it is!

        I am very Muay Thai & MMA oriented instructor for adults and Grappling for kids but I teach everything to everyone!
        I would love and be happy to hear of ideas from you guys for my dojo...!!

        I am thinking of using arm bands instead of belts
        and only using the belt system for BJJ and for little kids

        I am also thinking of using some cool design for GIs for the kids even though I do not like the idea so much
        camo suits?

        Hoping for some nice ideas!
        If I may ask, what part of South Florida?

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
          !!

          AMATURE ONLY
          may be one fight was considered pro but I was 17 I do not remember exactly but it was kickboxing K1 rules and I had only basic gear and it was aired on TV I guess... I cant tell I dont have a TV never had never will :D
          So you claim you have had a kickboxing match on TV at 17 you guess.....? Yes of course.......! You have a Jewish mother and she doesn't have that shit on VHS. Makes tons of sense.
          I believe this as much as if someone claimed to be Italian and their mother starved them by not making enough food.
          Last edited by Raycetpfl; 7/03/2017 8:32am, .
          The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
            1.What ever you have seen might have sucked, most of what you see is just name usage, read what I wrote about it... it all depends exactly as was written in this forum 5 and 10 years ago which why I was happy to find it and join you guys here
            I have taught bjj at Krav schools and I had an Israeli student that was a former IDF Krav Maga h2h instructor attend at my school. He said Krav sucked too. He was high white belt level in bjj.

            You are trying to bullshit the wrong group of dudes homie.
            Last edited by Raycetpfl; 7/03/2017 8:40am, .
            The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

            Comment


              #21
              If you're not really into mma competition, I'd just open a krav school. I think it's a lot more popular with the casual crowd which is where your real money is anyway.

              And if you care about the validity of the training you can always add pressure testing/training elements from competitive art like Muay Thai and BJJ.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                Hey guys as the resident Israeli I will weigh in here.

                KM sucks. Everyone here who needs actual H2H knows that and trains something else. Ben Gurion airport security for instance train BJJ.

                To become certified to teach BJJ in this country you have to(btw you have to be certified to teach hip hop or any sport for insurance reasons and governmental control of a sort):

                1) Have a blue belt in BJJ
                2) Have a certified instructor(can be another blue belt) say that you know your stuff well enough to instruct
                3) Have a certified instructor sign off on a form saying that you spent at least 3yrs in combat sports
                4) Pay 7500 shekel(just over $2000USD) for a 5 week course at the Wingate, and pass their tests.
                Here is the link for the course:
                http://www.wingate.org.il/Index.asp?...&ArticleID=372

                Certification from Wingate does not imply any ability or skill. It is primarily a course in physiology, class safety, teaching methods, and a few other things. My own BJJ coach sent me when I got my blue belt because he wanted me to teach Freestyle Wrestling in our club. His advice was, "Do what they tell you, give them the answers that they want, then you can forget it all."

                Nathan, you said you learned KM? Was this at a private club or in the Army? If it was in the Army how were you able to expatriate to Florida, as KM is only taught to Kravi(combat) units in the Army and they have to do, depending on specific unit up to 20yrs of miluim(reserve duty). Please answer honestly because you may be asked to show your teudat shichrur(Israeli version of DD214) to prove what you say.
                I do not know where you bring all those weird claims that I need to show my teudat shirhrur since it is illegal to do so but what ever
                KM is not taught to soldiers who served over 20 years
                as you can see here they are taught to 18 years old girls too
                not in Kravi Combat unit
                youtube.com/watch?v=BLMFIF3SYqc
                I never wanted to discuss wingate and certifications since since 2012 they made it more complicated and the MMA course basically lets you teach any martial art but you have to name it properly for insurance reasons mixed martial arts grappling if its BJJ or Wrestling and MMA striking if you want to teach Muay Thai
                yes... reality ....

                I have been pushed into that subject and it is a waste of my time we are in the US
                and Why a person who served in the Israeli military cant move to Florida? You have any idea how many US citizens serve in the IDF?
                this is a bunch of stuff I have never heard in my life
                plus KM is taught everywhere in Israel
                in front of my house we had KM school while the operator was a Judo competitor
                I never said KM sucks I said it depends in the instructor's background
                I had no idea ben gurion airport security personal learn BJJ
                never heard of that

                Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                If I may ask, what part of South Florida?
                Palm Beach

                Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                So you claim you have had a kickboxing match on TV at 17 you guess.....? Yes of course.......! You have a Jewish mother and she doesn't have that shit on VHS. Makes tons of sense.
                I believe this as much as if someone claimed to be Italian and their mother starved them by not making enough food.
                I do not think back in the day there was any type of professional boxing really
                since we were having a hard time expansing out the rent for the event and half of the crowd was families and some friends of 20 fighters in total

                Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                I have taught bjj at Krav schools and I had an Israeli student that was a former IDF Krav Maga h2h instructor attend at my school. He said Krav sucked too. He was high white belt level in bjj.

                You are trying to bullshit the wrong group of dudes homie.
                I never said it was good
                I said it depends on the background of the instructor

                Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                If you're not really into mma competition, I'd just open a krav school. I think it's a lot more popular with the casual crowd which is where your real money is anyway.

                And if you care about the validity of the training you can always add pressure testing/training elements from competitive art like Muay Thai and BJJ.
                Thanks!! best advise ever :)
                Last edited by nathan91; 7/03/2017 1:15pm, .

                Comment


                  #23
                  So far I would say that everything you are planning doesn't pass the smell test. Let me explain. We have a shit ton of veterans here in the states that have been through MCMAP and all other branch's combative systems. I personally have been through Law Enforcement training, Gracie Combative LEO training, Advanced ground fighting training, competed in BJJ, had tons of use of force's that I have had to go to court over. Plus a shit ton of civilian training.

                  Despite all of that neither the veterans I mentioned above nor myself would go and open a school teaching these things. We could easily call it RBSD (you can call it KM) and start teaching based on our training and experience. But that is not what the consumer is training for. For a few reasons. Average Joe doesn't want to just train to learn to fight. He wants some of that, but he also wants something to show for it. He wants his certificate. He wants his belt. He wants to compete. He wants to train in a certain name (BJJ, TKD, Kung FU, Judo). In order to do that he needs to get it from a verified lineage in that certain thing. And why does he want that, because then he knows he has legitimately trained in the thing he wants to train in.

                  If I just want a Black belt certificate in Shit Kwon Do, I can go on ebay and order one real quick. If I want a black belt, I can buy one off Amazon. Everyone knows that. So the people who are willing to pay their hard earned money to train, want to do that training under someone legitimate with a verifiable lineage in the thing they want to train.

                  So, in my opinion, you are not offering anything that anyone would want to buy. Other than afternoon daycare for kids. That wouldn't be a KM school. As far as you teaching BJJ, you say you are bringing over black belts. Well, so far you don't have them. So I would say leave BJJ alone. You want to teach kickboxing, that would be fine but most people figure out if a kickboxing place is legit by looking at competition record. Otherwise you are teaching cardio kickboxing. Don't waste your time there because they can get that at any local gym.

                  So based on what you have to far, I would say you are going to loose a lot of money in this venture.
                  Combatives training log.

                  Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                  Drum thread

                  Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                  "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
                    So far I would say that everything you are planning doesn't pass the smell test. Let me explain. We have a shit ton of veterans here in the states that have been through MCMAP and all other branch's combative systems. I personally have been through Law Enforcement training, Gracie Combative LEO training, Advanced ground fighting training, competed in BJJ, had tons of use of force's that I have had to go to court over. Plus a shit ton of civilian training.

                    Despite all of that neither the veterans I mentioned above nor myself would go and open a school teaching these things. We could easily call it RBSD (you can call it KM) and start teaching based on our training and experience. But that is not what the consumer is training for. For a few reasons. Average Joe doesn't want to just train to learn to fight. He wants some of that, but he also wants something to show for it. He wants his certificate. He wants his belt. He wants to compete. He wants to train in a certain name (BJJ, TKD, Kung FU, Judo). In order to do that he needs to get it from a verified lineage in that certain thing. And why does he want that, because then he knows he has legitimately trained in the thing he wants to train in.

                    If I just want a Black belt certificate in Shit Kwon Do, I can go on ebay and order one real quick. If I want a black belt, I can buy one off Amazon. Everyone knows that. So the people who are willing to pay their hard earned money to train, want to do that training under someone legitimate with a verifiable lineage in the thing they want to train.

                    So, in my opinion, you are not offering anything that anyone would want to buy. Other than afternoon daycare for kids. That wouldn't be a KM school. As far as you teaching BJJ, you say you are bringing over black belts. Well, so far you don't have them. So I would say leave BJJ alone. You want to teach kickboxing, that would be fine but most people figure out if a kickboxing place is legit by looking at competition record. Otherwise you are teaching cardio kickboxing. Don't waste your time there because they can get that at any local gym.

                    So based on what you have to far, I would say you are going to loose a lot of money in this venture.
                    Thanks for the reply
                    You helped me a lot!

                    I do have the black belt coach for BJJ to teach while the rest I wish to teach as MMA and extra KM classes
                    would you think it would work in terms of kids ( they are 80% of income)?
                    since you explained that adults are more demanding... which I haven't seen so far (in the last 6 months I was teaching adults: muay thai and mma classes)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      In my experience, if you are teaching kids, the parents usually don't care what their kids are taking. They just want a place for their kids to go in the afternoon so they can go grocery shopping or get some quiet time. In that case, all you need to do is offer some free self defense classes at school or the local health department and send cool fliers home that say stuff about fun birthday parties and summer camp. Dress them up in little dragon pajamas and sell some karate mom stickers at the front desk.

                      The parents that want their kids in a good school to compete in BJJ will skip right past your place for some place with a competition record. You will have a karate day care that will almost pay your bills every month.
                      Combatives training log.

                      Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                      Drum thread

                      Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                      "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
                        In my experience, if you are teaching kids, the parents usually don't care what their kids are taking. They just want a place for their kids to go in the afternoon so they can go grocery shopping or get some quiet time. In that case, all you need to do is offer some free self defense classes at school or the local health department and send cool fliers home that say stuff about fun birthday parties and summer camp. Dress them up in little dragon pajamas and sell some karate mom stickers at the front desk.

                        The parents that want their kids in a good school to compete in BJJ will skip right past your place for some place with a competition record. You will have a karate day care that will almost pay your bills every month.
                        hahahah this is very funny but I get the concept now :)
                        thanks for the advise

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Sometimes I find these discussions confusing.
                          On the one hand, there is immeasurable value in just teaching people basics.
                          Basics of Wrestling, basics of Judo, basics of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, basics of Boxing, basics of gun safety, basic marksmanship.
                          Frankly, those basics are all that I myself really drill or concern myself with,
                          and those grappling sport/art basics are all that I teach, just basics, drilled and tuned again and again.
                          (With the exception that beyond laser trainers and airsoft, I refer people to get their real firearms training from qualified firearms instructors,
                          and I refer people out to dedicated striking coaches who have made that much more of a primary focus in their careers than I have).
                          On the other hand, I have been on the mats for well over 30 years, and I am still trying to get those grappling sport/art basics right.
                          So, I can only hope that everybody who hangs up a shingle is truthful about what they know, and what they really don't know,
                          and that the public exercises Caveat Emptor at all times, with themselves and their kids regarding whom they select as coaches and trainers.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I do not know where you bring all those weird claims that I need to show my teudat shirhrur since it is illegal to do so but what ever
                            This is a straight out lie. Every israeli employer requires it. The govt issues you one that looks like a driver's license and even has little comments about your performance from your commanding officer... Yeah... I'm calling BS officially now.

                            [QUOTE=nathan91;2938801]KM is not taught to soldiers who served over 20 years[QUOTE]
                            Not what I said. I said it is only taught to those in Kravi units.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            as you can see here they are taught to 18 years old girls too
                            not in Kravi Combat unit
                            youtube.com/watch?v=BLMFIF3SYqc
                            You are really going to compare the KM instruction from the Krav Crash Course given to non-Kravi units to that of actual Kravi units? If so, that doesn't speak well for KM...


                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I never wanted to discuss wingate and certifications since since 2012 they made it more complicated and the MMA course basically lets you teach any martial art but you have to name it properly for insurance reasons mixed martial arts grappling if its BJJ or Wrestling and MMA striking if you want to teach Muay Thai
                            yes... reality ....
                            I could debate this, but that would require looking up the relevant laws from the relevant ministries, and I just can't be bothered. Anyone who wants to know can contact the Wingate and ask, in short they haven't changed their procedures since 2005.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I have been pushed into that subject and it is a waste of my time we are in the US
                            No. You were the one who claimed that you were certified to teach certain things, such as BJJ. When pressed you claimed that you were certified by the Wingate. I simply clarified for non-Israeli readers, who might think that is impressive, exactly what that means. While we are at it, what belt are you and who granted it to you?

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            and Why a person who served in the Israeli military cant move to Florida? You have any idea how many US citizens serve in the IDF?
                            Didn't say that they can't, however, you have to be released from your reserve duty status in the Israeli military to do so. How and why you got such a release speaks a great deal as to your actual abilities.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            this is a bunch of stuff I have never heard in my life
                            Yeah you run into that problem when you start playing around with facts.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            plus KM is taught everywhere in Israel
                            Hardly

                            [
                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            ]in front of my house we had KM school while the operator was a Judo competitor
                            Sure there are private clubs. There are private clubs that teach Ninjutsu and Abir Warrior too... All things considered there is a lot of MA woo in Israel.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I never said KM sucks I said it depends in the instructor's background
                            No you didn't. I, and most of the other people on this forum, did.

                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I had no idea ben gurion airport security personal learn BJJ
                            never heard of that
                            What you dont' know about what goes on in Israel would probably fill the Grand Canyon.


                            Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                            I do not think back in the day there was any type of professional boxing really
                            since we were having a hard time expansing out the rent for the event and half of the crowd was families and some friends of 20 fighters in total
                            How old are you? Professional boxing has been going strong in Israel since the founding of IPBO back in 2000... Before then it was hit or miss by various outside promoters, but since then they have had regular matches every 8-10 weeks...
                            Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                            "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                              This is a straight out lie. Every israeli employer requires it. The govt issues you one that looks like a driver's license and even has little comments about your performance from your commanding officer... Yeah... I'm calling BS officially now.

                              Not what I said. I said it is only taught to those in Kravi units.


                              You are really going to compare the KM instruction from the Krav Crash Course given to non-Kravi units to that of actual Kravi units? If so, that doesn't speak well for KM...



                              I could debate this, but that would require looking up the relevant laws from the relevant ministries, and I just can't be bothered. Anyone who wants to know can contact the Wingate and ask, in short they haven't changed their procedures since 2005.


                              No. You were the one who claimed that you were certified to teach certain things, such as BJJ. When pressed you claimed that you were certified by the Wingate. I simply clarified for non-Israeli readers, who might think that is impressive, exactly what that means. While we are at it, what belt are you and who granted it to you?


                              Didn't say that they can't, however, you have to be released from your reserve duty status in the Israeli military to do so. How and why you got such a release speaks a great deal as to your actual abilities.


                              Yeah you run into that problem when you start playing around with facts.


                              Hardly


                              Sure there are private clubs. There are private clubs that teach Ninjutsu and Abir Warrior too... All things considered there is a lot of MA woo in Israel.


                              No you didn't. I, and most of the other people on this forum, did.


                              What you dont' know about what goes on in Israel would probably fill the Grand Canyon.



                              How old are you? Professional boxing has been going strong in Israel since the founding of IPBO back in 2000... Before then it was hit or miss by various outside promoters, but since then they have had regular matches every 8-10 weeks...

                              I am curious as to how you respond Nathan.
                              ... because I too have seen a number of discrepancies with what you say and things I know to be facts.

                              Originally posted by nathan91 View Post
                              Wingate Institue in Israel
                              I am Israel's Boxing, Kickboxing, K1 champion several times
                              Google says no.

                              and I had a lot of competitions done in Russia and I spent training camps in Thailand and Russia. Never competed BJJ but I did have a few fights of MMA since it was not so regulated back in that time in Israel and I was in a combat unit in the Israeli army also as an instructor for the unit it self and we called the class of self defense which i taught (which was an MMA) - Krav Maga class lol

                              Oh I have never participated in a competition under Muay Thai rules since my gym and coach had organizations wars and we were submitted for K1 rules
                              but I was training for a lot of years as a Muay Thai fighter and everything inside the gym was Muay Thai
                              we couldnt use elbows in our competitions
                              I have to say frankly most competition was not as hard as training since the other trainees in the gym were heavier and stronger and more experienced so that is also why I can not figure out competitions as a criteria... may be here in the US people who do not fight in competitions are not considered strong?
                              tell me please... thanks!!

                              AMATURE ONLY
                              may be one fight was considered pro but I was 17 I do not remember exactly but it was kickboxing K1 rules and I had only basic gear and it was aired on TV I guess... I cant tell I dont have a TV never had never will :D
                              I would like to know your actual combat sport record.
                              Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 7/03/2017 3:21pm, .
                              I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
                              BILL HICKS,
                              1961-1994

                              "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
                              ---Jean-Paul Sartre

                              Comment


                                #30
                                First an honest answer to anyone who is thinking of opening a martial arts business.

                                To start, people want to know how you are qualified to teach. Most people (especially parents) want to see certificates on the wall. In this internet age, expect these certificates to be googled.

                                So, let's assume you have the papers, now you have to realize that there is a reason that McDojoism exists. The money in straight tuition just isn't there to keep anything running, long term. This means, if you want to break even, you have to charge for belt testing. If you want profit, you need lots of belts to test for. You also need to do after school pick ups, birthday parties, sell your own branded gear and uniforms, and run special seminars. To give an example, I recently inquired about a seminar at my club with a semi-known judo coach. He wanted 500 up front and then a split of the door up to another 500, and I could keep whatever was left. MAYBE, I would make a hundred bucks after all was said and done, but there are so many seminars going on all the time, it's hard to price them right and get people to show up. It's easy to get wallet fatigue with seminars.

                                This stuff covers kids, and some parents, which will be your bread and butter. For adults, they will spend less money, as they don't care so much about a lot of this stuff. You will also attract fewer of them, unless you are a competitive MMA gym. If you don't have a verifiable fight record or stable of fighters that you have trained to local hero status, good luck. You wont be able to attract good fighters from other gyms, and the people you do attract will either quit the sport or go to a more reputable gym quickly after finding out you suck if they do badly in tournaments.

                                If you advertise BJJ, be certified in BJJ. If you advertise Judo, be certified in Judo. If you start giving out rank in styles that you don't hold rank in yourself, you are in for a bad time.

                                You will lose money to start. If you break even after a year or so, you did good. You will probably have a day job while doing this. I have known thousands of fighters and coaches in my life, and maybe 20 of them are making a full time living with martial arts.

                                If you want to teach Krav, then you're going to have a bit easier time with adults because it's "self defense" training, but there isn't a lot of money out there for self defense/combatives alone.

                                Now, to what I've read in this thread, if you are former IDF, then you should have the equivalent of a DD214. I'm Jewish myself, and I have worked with Israelis. They have their papers in order.

                                Can you provide any links to back up your claims of your martial arts/combat sports history?

                                I've been on this site for a long time, and I can tell you that you are failing the smell test in my book. I'm not calling you a fake or a fraud. I'm not saying that you are out to scam anyone, but what you're saying here is similar to people who have tried to pull a fast one. I would hate for you to be falsely accused of anything, or to ruin your own reputation by inadvertently mimicking frauds.

                                Hope this helps.

                                Comment

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