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    #16
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Like most things, it really depends on the people.
    Hazing things normally start off more or less innocent and mild, but with each generation get worse.
    Their are people I have trained with that I would trust to run the gauntlet with - virtually none of them are white belts.
    It takes a certain maturity to haze people without it being a bad thing, unfortunately the very act of hazing is typically an immature thing.
    The gauntlet is a glove. It's meant to be worn. It's something you choose, not thrust upon you by another.

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      #17
      In my school, we just do a jump in.

      My school, of course, is the Street.
      Dan Severn loves raping people.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
        As usual it's best you start all conversations with Bjj school owners the same way as you do policemen.
        Inform them that you pay their salary and you won't be doing any thing you don't wanna do.
        BJJ instructors are not Policemen, though.
        They are Gym teachers and sports coaches.
        Any sports coach can say if you don't do this, you are off the team.
        If they are talking about practice attendance, giving maximum hustle during practice, and getting good grades, that is healthy.
        If they, in their coach's role, are talking about submitting to any kind of hazing ritual, particularly one that could be said to be modeled off a gang initiation ritual or have S&M connotations, then they do not yet have the maturity or professionalism to be in a coach's role.
        The older we get, the natural and virtuous evolution is to allow less and less grab ass and horseplay while we are personally on the floor, especially in environments where injuries are an expected occasional outcome when even optimal procdures are followed.
        Finally, why would it be virtuous for a black belt to allow their lower belts to be whipped by anybody without those lower belts fighting back?
        Might it not be better to teach one's students not to submit to an ass whipping without bringing back their own best form of hell on anyone, whether from instructor or peers or an adversary, who tries to subject them to an ass whipping or bullying of any kind?
        I'm here to teach people how to fight back, not meekly let other people hit them because of social factors of any kind.
        Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 6/22/2017 7:30am, .

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          #19
          Walda, I've participated in a few belt whipping ceremonies and I think they're stupid.

          I think you should ask to speak privately with your instructor. In that private meeting, tell the instructor (as ermaghoti suggested above) that your past experiences would cause such a ritual to be emotionally traumatic. Tell the instructor that you would like this information to remain private. You don't need to go into detail about your past. Just keep repeating those three things: past experience makes belt whipping not work for you, you'd like that to be private information, and you don't want to talk about it.

          Best of luck.

          As a side note, it's a shame that so many instructors don't realize that this kind of scenario is going to be common. They pat themselves on the back for teaching self-defense, but that means that people with a traumatic past are going to sign up. We shouldn't construct artificial bullshit for them when they do.
          What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

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            #20
            This is exactly where I land on this:

            I wouldn't train at a place where I can't/don't trust my training partners not to hurt me.
            Be that via a right of passage, via drilling, via rolling, via any thing.
            I simply wouldn't train any place where the thought of getting belt whipped made me afraid even if that school didn't belt whip.
            That being said not having the belt whipping thing seems to be a good indication of the maturity of an instructor.
            Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
            –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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              #21
              Thank you guys so much! I feel a lot better now. You made some good points and I think it was a good thing to talk to you. I think talking to my instructor is a good idea. I will ask for a private meeting. And I will mention the self defence part, my instructor advertises BJJ as something that is good for woman and self defense, so he should understand the whole thing.
              If not - there is another nice gym here. This one focuses a little more on competition and does MMA too - but they also have a BJJ class and no GI grappling. So it is an option.
              Realising that I can just quit there and find another place to train feels good. So thank you for listening and helping me think about all of this!

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                #22
                Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                I'm here to teach people how to fight back, not meekly let other people hit them because of social factors of any kind.

                This is a great point.

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                  #23
                  I've experienced a few different BJJ rites of passage, both in a gauntlet form. When I got my Blue belt it was belt whipping, but the whole thing was pretty good natured and friendly. I've seen some that get completely out of hand, it really depends on the vibe of the club. For my Purple belt I had to go down the line and get thrown by everyone. That wasn't too bad either, but once again I was at a pretty chill and friendly club, so no one took it real seriously. In both instances I could have skipped it had I wanted to, forcing you to do something like that isn't cool.

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                    #24
                    Obviously someone shouldn't be made to do anything against their will, or be made to feel uncomfortable(in a personal way) in their martial arts academy at all, period. This is obviously something to bring up initially if it's of concern to you, and I doubt and credible professor would condone something that would harm or put off future students.

                    I've been through the military pinning ceremonies before, and have also witnesses other forms of hazing that was stupid and out of hand. Having said that I'm glad I went through a couple of them, and participated in the same stupid fraternal traditions that grandfather did.

                    Before I joined my BJJ academy I had seen some gauntlet vids by the friends that persuaded me to join, and initially felt a bit disappointed that I didn't get it after my blue...until a couple minutes later where those of us that wanted it secretly went to the back room for it. I trust everyone I train with, we're family, they're not sadistic egomaniacs, and it was a pleasure to go through the ritual. We do other things in hard training sessions similar to what's been said as well, but I don't mind that tradition. That's just me. Call me an idiot, but I don't mind the martial methods to some madness if they're reasonable. There's a few out of hand vids that's done the rounds on bjj interwebs, so I think the general concensus disapproves brutal and out of hand hazing.

                    I'm not trying to justify its use, or pursuade anyone to go through with it, and don't like the fact these things would make someone nervous, or turn them away from BJJ, but don't think the few that have affinity for the fraternal rites should be scorned either.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post

                      it was a pleasure to go through the ritual.
                      I don't know, no disrespect, but it sounds like someone just enjoys being whipped.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                        I don't know, no disrespect, but it sounds like someone just enjoys being whipped.

                        As if good, hard, training over an extended period of time isn't enough of a "rite of passage".

                        I find it rather funny that an American (as in USAian) came up with the idea and it spread to Brazil...

                        Here's a REAL Brazilian rite of passage.
                        Falling for Judo since 1980

                        "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                        "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                        "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                          I don't know, no disrespect, but it sounds like someone just enjoys being whipped.
                          Speak of...him... where is Devil anway? I want to hear his opinion on this topic.

                          Oh here he comes...tee me up, would you Murph?

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                            I don't know, no disrespect, but it sounds like someone just enjoys being whipped.

                            Fair play professor. I don't know if I disrupted the forces that be with that post for the better or not, but coincidently we just had a grading today, and to my utter surprise got my purple!! Still kind of buzzing, but...

                            Yea our instructor said, "We used to beat the crap out of you for belts, but now we just make you give a speech." Except afterwards a few of us went to the back room again for the gauntlet, and I've been reassured that I stand by my statement, and yes I love that shit!

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                              Fair play professor. I don't know if I disrupted the forces that be with that post for the better or not, but coincidently we just had a grading today, and to my utter surprise got my purple!! Still kind of buzzing, but...

                              Yea our instructor said, "We used to beat the crap out of you for belts, but now we just make you give a speech." Except afterwards a few of us went to the back room again for the gauntlet, and I've been reassured that I stand by my statement, and yes I love that shit!
                              Congratulations on your purple belt, sir!

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                                Congratulations on your purple belt, sir!
                                Thanks you sir, much appreciated!

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