Self Defense vs Combat Sports: Help Explaining the Difference

[Kravbizarre]

But will the Krav protect you from this?

It will because one of its fundamentals is esentially running away from your problems.

I went to terrorism survival seminar. Went in with an open mind (when i was a km student). Thought id learn shit about navigating through chaos, finding exits and not getting funnelled like sheep. Just some survival tips from an expert in the field. What i got was a sure way to get myself killed. Ran through multiple scenarios where basically the whole thing was based around mob mentality.

Guy running the show was saying 'dont be sheep. So soon as we seen an 'attacker' with a gun shooting people we had to all rush him and bring him down. 2-3 persons dying is better than 10. I get that, great in theory but in order for it to work everyone needs that mind set.

When a public attack happens, according to footage everyone runs for their life. Those with that mindset are unlikely to be around each other in great numbers. But then again more suicide bombings would happen if the mob mentality started work.

This is the kind of false security you will get from krav. One of the most absurd things i learn was: if you parry a stab attempt or block the arm (google 360 defence) and counter with groin kick or throat punch run away. My question was "what if they chase you" response "always leave when you can, if you have to deal with them again then keep doing it". I dont like being stabbed in the back or cornered with a person with a knife who i just really pissed off.

[BKR]

That wouldn't have made for good TV.

Well, they could have built it up to that point, at least.

She wouldn't be so deluded if she actually did some Judo or Sambo, instead of that crappy-looking pseudo kick-boxing.

[goodlun]

So much BS when all he needed to do was challenger her, take her down, and play-slap her in the head a few times...

That wouldn't have made for good TV.

[BKR]

"Stop doing the thing that we, the reality-based fighters, are absolutely helpless to defend against."

Also, I like the chick at 6:50 or so showing the class how to drop their hands while punching. I don't have my speakers on, but I assume she's saying, "no, lower, like below your armpit. Like this. Expose your entire head. THE ENTIRE HEAD, JEREMY."

So much BS when all he needed to do was challenger her, take her down, and play-slap her in the head a few times...

[ermghoti]

Notice the MMA guy just has to take them to the ground to dominate. Then he gets told "don't take it to the ground, we train our people to never go the ground."

"Stop doing the thing that we, the reality-based fighters, are absolutely helpless to defend against."

Also, I like the chick at 6:50 or so showing the class how to drop their hands while punching. I don't have my speakers on, but I assume she's saying, "no, lower, like below your armpit. Like this. Expose your entire head. THE ENTIRE HEAD, JEREMY."

[goodlun]

But will the Krav protect you from this?

[Pship Destroyer]

I'll answer this for you. It is a combatives system lacking an underlying martial art.

Right, and correct me if I'm wrong here...but this is because the founder who DID have experience in multiple underlying alive martial arts (including wrestling), didn't make the focus of KM training actually learning all those other arts in an integrated fashion (as in MMA today). The traditional idea of "Sensei touched me on the shoulder.. so I must be a martial artist now" seems to apply here. Once the Krav has you...you have the Krav...smells like traditional bullshit 2.0.

In other words, there are really just two extremes of what "Krav Maga" means...one is just the basic idea of learning unarmed combat (which means you could study and combine many arts, like MMA does, and say "this is my krav maga" and it's accurate).

The other is what we're discussing...the McDonald's fast food approach ("Krav McMaga") to combatives that essentially avoids the whole "you should cross train in judo, boxing, sambo...swimming to be a good H2H fighter" issue. Casually avoiding everything that made Krav's founder a respected martial artist.

The Israeli military seems to have put a lot of emphasis into building up the rep of the second Krav Maga, and there follow all the even further watered down "civ versions".

If people just cross trained a number of composite alive arts and called it "Krav", i.e. Omega...hey, the Hebrew fits! The English version of this would be if you taught boxing, judo, and wrestling in a single school and called it "Fighting School".

Not racist. Just true.

But definitely ironic, since the martial arts that Krav's founder knew and used in fighting AREN'T what they train in most Krav schools today.

People show up for Angus steak, and they get chicken nuggets.

[halfcut]

because people are morons or something?

That could literally be a direct quote from Omega. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up over here yet

[Raycetpfl]

This is 100% true. Matt Larsen took a group of guys out to Torrance from Ranger Regiment to train with Rorion and Royce who helped them build out a foundational combatives program for the regiment which later became MACP after the Army adopted it. SOCP was developed by Greg Thompson, himself a Royce blackbelt and Royce to this day has a pretty close relationship with the program and used to do a lot of free seminars for on post.

To jump on the KM hate it's been my experience that if you do somehow find "Good KM" it's probably not KM in anything but name. I personally know several instructors that are doing combat sambo but calling it KM because KM is a money maker with name recognition amongst the general public and an amazing marketing system.

Omega teaches combat sambo/CMA/MMA under the Krav banner...... because people are morons or something?

[Michael Tzadok]

I never said it was a well reasoned or historically accurate belief



It's probably better than the people teaching real KM pretending they know how to fight

Well one of the two KM guys in Fight Quest, the better one to be honest, was a professional boxer. The KMW guys(if you search it) threw all kinds of shade because they were using gloves and protective gear, you know like striker do in real training.

[Devil]

I never said it was a well reasoned or historically accurate belief



It's probably better than the people teaching real KM pretending they know how to fight

True.

[halfcut]

History... They're failing at it.

I never said it was a well reasoned or historically accurate belief

I think it's a little gross to pretend you do Krav Maga, but whatever. Good training is good training.

It's probably better than the people teaching real KM pretending they know how to fight

[Michael Tzadok]

Put it this way, if your KM instructor is Russian there is a good chance you're really learning Sambo. There is a strong belief amongst some in the Russian Sambo community that Imi was trained in Combat Sambo and that KM is a bastardized half-assed take on Combat Sambo so hijacking their marketing machine is totally fine.

History... They're failing at it.

[Devil]

Put it this way, if your KM instructor is Russian there is a good chance you're really learning Sambo. There is a strong belief amongst some in the Russian Sambo community that Imi was trained in Combat Sambo and that KM is a bastardized half-assed take on Combat Sambo so hijacking their marketing machine is totally fine.

I think it's a little gross to pretend you do Krav Maga, but whatever. Good training is good training.

[halfcut]

Training motherfuckers on the sly to actually be able to fight despite the fact that they're doing everything in their power to try to be suckass Krav Magidiots. I can dig it.

Put it this way, if your KM instructor is Russian there is a good chance you're really learning Sambo. There is a strong belief amongst some in the Russian Sambo community that Imi was trained in Combat Sambo and that KM is a bastardized half-assed take on Combat Sambo so hijacking their marketing machine is totally fine.