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Bartitsu as a street fighting go-to

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    Bartitsu as a street fighting go-to


    #2
    Anyone else ever heard of "Bartitsu"?
    Yes, I have.
    Dan Severn loves raping people.

    Comment


      #3
      There is some validity in pulling a coat or hoodie or shirt over some chumps head. Just like there is some validity in Barjitsu. Barjitsu's biggest failing is people often do not train it against resistance ... well that and you need a grappling and or striking background to really take the techniques from books to the STR34TS.

      Trying to learn anything out of a book or with videos or on your own is a great recipe for self-delusion and an inflated sense of ability.

      So here is the WMA forum. Note the number of Barjitsu topics. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=128 Read and poke around there some. Keep in mind here on Bullshido you should READ MORE and post less.

      Good luck!
      I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
      BILL HICKS,
      1961-1994

      "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
      ---Jean-Paul Sartre

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
        There is some validity in pulling a coat or hoodie or shirt over some chumps head.
        The idea was to whip your own coat over the chump's head (or smash your hat into their face). Seems implausible as an effective technique, no?

        "Trying to learn anything out of a book or with videos or on your own is a great recipe for self-delusion and an inflated sense of ability."
        ^Good point.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by dudermcmerican View Post
          Anyway, I just read a book called "The Art of Manliness," and the authors advocate for the employment of Bartitsu in a street fight.
          That would be enough for disregarding Bartitsu as a serious martial art or self defense system, however...



          Not bad at all-

          BTE, welcome to Bullshido.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by dudermcmerican View Post
            The idea was to whip your own coat over the chump's head (or smash your hat into their face). Seems implausible as an effective technique, no?.
            An unexpected move that can distract your opponent enough so you can get a tactical advantage. It's not a completely silly idea.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DCS View Post
              An unexpected move that can distract your opponent enough so you can get a tactical advantage. It's not a completely silly idea.
              Not completely silly I agree. I would still rather use their coat/jacket/shirt/whiteytightymanpanties to obscure their vision and limit their mobility. If you play your cards right you can pull their pants down to their ankles and their undies over their forehead. At that point you can deal with your attackers at your leisure.
              I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
              BILL HICKS,
              1961-1994

              "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
              ---Jean-Paul Sartre

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by dudermcmerican View Post


                Bartitsu borrows the following techniques from the aforementioned fighting forms.
                1) Jujitsu: the shoulder lock and the sweeping ankle throw
                2) Boxing: the jab, the hook, and the overhand punch (a variation of the cross)
                3) Savate: the chasse cross kick and coup de pied bas
                4) Cane fighting: the jab, the thrust, and cuts
                The "Art of Manliness" author was an interested lay-person rather than an actual authority and he made some inaccurate assumptions and over-generalizations. In fact, Bartitsu was (and is again) a cross-training system between several martial arts and combat sports as they were being practiced at the original Bartitsu Club in London, circa 1900. That system includes all of the techniques listed here and then some, but modern self-defense applicability is third or fourth in the priority list. The main aim is to revive the original style for its own sake, as a recreational martial art, via a combination of academic research and pressure-testing through sparring, etc.

                This is what it looks like when it's practiced as a martial art, i.e. trained seriously and tested against resisting opponents:

                The "overcoat trick" is verbatim from one of E.W. Barton-Wright's 1899 articles; the hat technique isn't part of Bartitsu at all, but rather from one of the French self-defense systems that arose in the decade after the heyday of the Bartitsu Club. That said, the techniques are basically sound and can easily be adapted for modern use. For example, Barton-Wright advocated wearing an overcoat over the shoulders, in the manner of a cloak, rather than putting your arms through the sleeves, specifically so it could be used as a distraction/blinding weapon if necessary; the same advice is applicable to any modern long winter coat.

                See above, but also note that Barton-Wright's first piece of self-defense advice (way back around 1900) was to avoid dangerous situations if possible. That said, again, regardless of the "Art of Manliness" author's agenda, the main purpose of modern Bartitsu training is to revive the original style for its own sake, rather than re-inventing the wheel of modern RBSD ("reality-based self defense").

                Anyone else ever heard of "Bartitsu"?
                Yes.
                Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
                  There is some validity in pulling a coat or hoodie or shirt over some chumps head. Just like there is some validity in Barjitsu. Barjitsu's biggest failing is people often do not train it against resistance ... well that and you need a grappling and or striking background to really take the techniques from books to the STR34TS.

                  Trying to learn anything out of a book or with videos or on your own is a great recipe for self-delusion and an inflated sense of ability.
                  That's true, but do note that people sometimes hear "reviving a historical martial art" and jump to the conclusion that the revivalists are bookworms with no practical experience, which is not often the case. Most of the first generation of modern Bartitsu (and other HEMA) revivalists had serious backgrounds in a wide range of MAs and combat sports.
                  Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                  Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd rather have a large hot coffee in a styrofoam cup in my hand than a cloak if waylaid by a ruffian.
                    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

                    Originally posted by strikistanian
                    DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
                    Originally posted by Devil
                    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
                    Originally posted by Plasma
                    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
                    Originally posted by SoulMechanic
                    Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Streetfighting is not worth of it - if you go to the Street you die

                      If you start fighting thgere...well I dont even want to know what happens

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by DdlR View Post
                        Most of the first generation of modern Bartitsu (and other HEMA) revivalists had serious backgrounds in a wide range of MAs and combat sports.
                        Which is why I <3 WMA ... including Bartitsu. Some of the guys involved are taking it seriously and have good experiences to draw from when taking the hypotheticals and illustrations and descriptions to actually "smashing an ankle with a walking cane". They know or will try to find out (in a somewhat safe way) if it is the fight ender, as some silly ass people claim.
                        ... and there are plenty of silly ass people involved with WMA and all it's ilk. So if you (OP) stumble upon some bullshit know in your heart it isn't all terrible. I have also been seeing Aikido guys muscling in on the Bartitsu scene ... so heads up on that.
                        I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
                        BILL HICKS,
                        1961-1994

                        "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
                        ---Jean-Paul Sartre

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
                          Which is why I <3 WMA ... including Bartitsu. Some of the guys involved are taking it seriously and have good experiences to draw from when taking the hypotheticals and illustrations and descriptions to actually "smashing an ankle with a walking cane". They know or will try to find out (in a somewhat safe way) if it is the fight ender, as some silly ass people claim.
                          ... and there are plenty of silly ass people involved with WMA and all it's ilk. So if you (OP) stumble upon some bullshit know in your heart it isn't all terrible. I have also been seeing Aikido guys muscling in on the Bartitsu scene ... so heads up on that.
                          Really? I keep my ear to the ground and I haven't noticed any Aiki-folk.

                          But yeah, the current proportions are about 1/3 ironic hipster silliness at steampunk conventions, 1/3 McDojo-style mediocrity and 1/3 serious practitioners. The Sherlock Holmes movies created a geek-shiny pop culture bandwagon out of what had previously been a fringe-of-the-fringe MA revivalist activity and that noise is only recently beginning to abate.
                          Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                          Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DdlR View Post
                            Really? I keep my ear to the ground and I haven't noticed any Aiki-folk.

                            But yeah, the current proportions are about 1/3 ironic hipster silliness at steampunk conventions, 1/3 McDojo-style mediocrity and 1/3 serious practitioners. The Sherlock Holmes movies created a geek-shiny pop culture bandwagon out of what had previously been a fringe-of-the-fringe MA revivalist activity and that noise is only recently beginning to abate.
                            I thought that would perk your interest, I will try and dig up the link to the dudes page. He was definitely part of where those first two thirds overlap in a Venn Diagram.
                            I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
                            BILL HICKS,
                            1961-1994

                            "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
                            ---Jean-Paul Sartre

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Wow, all great info. Thanks!

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