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Ippon Seoi Nage demo by BJJ blue belts.

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    #31
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Those kids in the x-method of Judo? That guy has been around for a while, back on the old judo forum, known as the Red Beetle.

    He's kinda wierd, flakey, as I recall. Home schooled Judo, yes, that's it. Was also a bit of a troll at times.
    Yeah, he got into some religious arguments with guys over on judo-info as well, back when judoinfo was still a thing.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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      #32
      Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
      That whole entry is taught in the Gracie basics of the punch block series. The step to the side and everything. I have been calling it a hip throw for the better part of the last decade.

      Regardless of there being hip bump entries would you say that is a back throw Or a hip throw the way they are doing it?
      OK, I watched most of it again.

      Some of them are more hip throws, some are in between, others are more normal Ippon Seoi Nage.

      I don't get the purpose of that entry they do, putting the hand behind the back, stepping to outside, then doing the "seoi nage".

      There are bigger issues with some of their throwing than hip/versus shoulder/back carry-type throw, but not anything really unusual (except that odd entry).
      Falling for Judo since 1980

      "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

      "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

      "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by BKR View Post
        OK, I watched most of it again.

        Some of them are more hip throws, some are in between, others are more normal Ippon Seoi Nage.

        I don't get the purpose of that entry they do, putting the hand behind the back, stepping to outside, then doing the "seoi nage".

        There are bigger issues with some of their throwing than hip/versus shoulder/back carry-type throw, but not anything really unusual (except that odd entry).
        In Gracie Jiu-Jitsu it's for moving away from a position where possible punches could be thrown. Gluing yourself to their side kind of negates striking and also allows you to have a lot of takedown options after the punch block.
        Last edited by Raycetpfl; 12/20/2016 6:26pm, .

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          #34
          Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
          In Gracie Jiu-Jitsu it's for moving away from a position where possible punches could be thrown. Gluing yourself to their side kind of negates striking and also allows you to have a lot of takedown options after the punch block.
          Ok, I understand now. There execution makes it look more conceptual than practical. They put themselves in a (not too good) position for a hip throw, then go for a shoulder/back carry throw.

          You know, I do do Judo, and if I were in a fight, and got into that position, I'd probably just do something from there, not move back in front like that.

          Maybe Ura Nage or Te Guruma, or a throw to the rear. Or get behind them, seat belt grip and whatever.

          I like to keep it simple. Action-reaction outside of judo matches tends to be rudimentary and involve lots of strength and wrenching around...
          Falling for Judo since 1980

          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
            In Gracie Jiu-Jitsu it's for moving away from a position where possible punches could be thrown. Gluing yourself to their side kind of negates striking and also allows you to have a lot of takedown options after the punch block.
            Here is Helio Gracie doing the hip throw instead of ISN from the step to side thing, to defend a punch. Which makes a lot more sense than ISN.

            Note that Helio really does ISN and not a hip throw when he does ISN.

            https://youtu.be/Cob4BzRJluY?t=273
            Falling for Judo since 1980

            "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

            "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

            "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by BKR View Post
              Here is Helio Gracie doing the hip throw instead of ISN from the step to side thing, to defend a punch. Which makes a lot more sense than ISN.

              Note that Helio really does ISN and not a hip throw when he does ISN.

              https://youtu.be/Cob4BzRJluY?t=273
              I believe he took a judo class once.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                I believe he took a judo class once.
                LOL, right. Those soft-judo blue belts should go back to the source to see how they are supposed to do the throw...
                Falling for Judo since 1980

                "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  Ok, I understand now. There execution makes it look more conceptual than practical. They put themselves in a (not too good) position for a hip throw, then go for a shoulder/back carry throw.

                  You know, I do do Judo, and if I were in a fight, and got into that position, I'd probably just do something from there, not move back in front like that.

                  Maybe Ura Nage or Te Guruma, or a throw to the rear. Or get behind them, seat belt grip and whatever.

                  I like to keep it simple. Action-reaction outside of judo matches tends to be rudimentary and involve lots of strength and wrenching around...
                  The idea of the action/reaction gets lost in static drills for sure, but generally people will try to square back up to you. As they are trying to square back up you launch a hip throw.
                  If they were able to be easily held there,etc., I would agree with doing a double or a uranage if they weren't at a huge size advantage. Tani otoshi is also my favorite from there.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                    The idea of the action/reaction gets lost in static drills for sure, but generally people will try to square back up to you. As they are trying to square back up you launch a hip throw.
                    If they were able to be easily held there,etc., I would agree with doing a double or a uranage if they weren't at a huge size advantage. Tani otoshi is also my favorite from there.
                    Right, the whole "they will square up to you" action reaction is used in "pure throwing" as well, and is what circular movement, ashi waza attacks, and gripping (all in combinations of various sorts) is based on, trying to get the correct throwing angle/line.

                    I agree regarding size differences and the big back throws, although if a small guy is good at the big back throws, not such an issue. Tani Otoshi is one of the ones that is useful as well, of course, unless you do not want to get on the ground. Daki Wakare is useful, and blends into Tani Otoshi. I'd probably avoid Morote Gari (Double Leg) as I hate exposing my head/back/neck to being grabbed/kneed, or driven into ground, but it does have it's uses.

                    In general, if I get to that position they are going to have to react pretty quickly before I'm taking them down or tying them up and running them into the nearest vertical object. Maybe they square up in that process.

                    As you know, once you know how to throw pretty well, all sorts of things open up pretty much no matter what happens.
                    Falling for Judo since 1980

                    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by BKR View Post
                      I'd probably avoid Morote Gari (Double Leg) as I hate exposing my head/back/neck to being grabbed/kneed, or driven into ground, but it does have it's uses.
                      When you hit it from that far side and drive towards the other side with your head high you're not really in a position to get kneed. This is a different set up but he finishes in the direction I like too from that situation if I go the outlet route.



                      I will exaggerate it even more from the side.
                      Last edited by Raycetpfl; 12/21/2016 5:03pm, .

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                        When you hit it from that far side and drive towards the other side with your head high you're not really in a position to get kneed. This is a different set up but he finishes in the direction I like too from that situation if I go the outlet route.

                        Video incoming
                        I am by no means an expert on Morote Gari or Double Legs (there is a difference though, sometimes).

                        I think I get what you mean, looking forward to video!
                        Falling for Judo since 1980

                        "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                        "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                        "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Watch it to the end to see how to get your girl back from the big bully.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by NeilG View Post
                            Watch it to the end to see how to get your girl back from the big bully.
                            I have already in the past. They must have been reading those Charles Atlas ads...

                            Same reason Rayce took up BJJ/GJJ in the first place...
                            Falling for Judo since 1980

                            "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                            "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                            "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Ippon Seoi Nage is probably one of my worst throws. The double, on the other hand, is a speciality of mine. If I try to exchange Seoi Nage's with the guys at my club with Judo backgrounds I'm going for a ride so it kind of has to be.

                              People are often surprised by my shot not just because I time it properly, but because it is exceptionally fast and explosive for a Jiu-Jitsu player- to the extent that I can regularly double a Judo brown/Bjj Blue belt with 10lbs on me and a Bjj purple with 35-40+lbs on me at the club where I currently train. So, I think it can be a great takedown against larger guys. However developing speed and explosiveness is vital to get the most out of it, as with many other takedowns.

                              Done properly, like Rayce said, the risk of being badly kneed is minimal against most people. Additionally a decent MMA gym will teach you to keep your guard up whilst shooting as a pre-cautionary measure, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
                              Last edited by Aka-Tora; 12/21/2016 7:58pm, .

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                                #45
                                Then again I live to regret doubling the first guy I mentioned, as he finds a way to return the favour by tapping me with some really nasty chokes- especially in the gi.

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