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Ippon Seoi Nage demo by BJJ blue belts.

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    #16
    Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Well, that's where things get sticky. For example when I teach SAMBO or Jiujitsu I never use the Judo names, and yes I'm getting that anal. I mean I shot a video stating I was doing osot gari and all the Judoka lost their fucking mind, while other competitors simply shrugged their shoulders and said "cool". They should simply say "shoulder throw" not seo nage, then we couldn't whine about it.
    i like this approach. there are lots of shuai jiao techniques that *resemble* judo techniques, but they are different, with different principles. it bothers me when people say things like "this technique is called X in judo" because judo is more than just a collection of techniques, it's far more accurate to say "this resembles a technique in judo named X", although i'm sure some people would say i'm taking the whole thing far too seriously.

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      #17
      So has anyone told them that's a hip throw not ippon seio Nage yet?

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        #18
        Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
        Well, that's where things get sticky. For example when I teach SAMBO or Jiujitsu I never use the Judo names, and yes I'm getting that anal. I mean I shot a video stating I was doing osot gari and all the Judoka lost their fucking mind, while other competitors simply shrugged their shoulders and said "cool". They should simply say "shoulder throw" not seo nage, then we couldn't whine about it.
        I guess so, people get all proprietary (not saying you do) about what comes from where and what it's called (Judo guys are often pretty bad that way) in what language. I've been known to go there myself...

        I have to differ, the guys in the video posted are not demonstrating the most efficient throwing process, regardless of what it's called. But maybe, that's what makes it Judo, if it's done correctly at least.

        Sometimes guys in my BJJ class will ask what the Japanese name for something is, for some reason. When I spew out Ude Hishigi Ude Gatame, or Ashi Sankaku Garami, my coach kinda rolls his eyes, LOl !

        I'm getting to the age where I don't really care anymore about names, although SOME Judo names imply important throwing principles that are important to know. Maybe...

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          #19
          Originally posted by DCS View Post
          Merry Christmas for you too.
          Your English to Gallego/Castellano sarcasm detector is apparently broken.

          Merry Christmas to you too, BTW.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
            i like this approach. there are lots of shuai jiao techniques that *resemble* judo techniques, but they are different, with different principles. it bothers me when people say things like "this technique is called X in judo" because judo is more than just a collection of techniques, it's far more accurate to say "this resembles a technique in judo named X", although i'm sure some people would say i'm taking the whole thing far too seriously.
            I agree. Even in Judo, especially in competition, you see techniques that are hard to clearly "classify" in the Judo theme.

            In those cases, I'll say something like "that resembles x-technique in Judo, or "is a mixture/blend of these x# of techniques" or "that is a variation of x technique".

            People often mistake entry method for the technique in Judo, even, GASP experienced judoka.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
              So has anyone told them that's a hip throw not ippon seio Nage yet?
              Some of them were, some were close enough for government work (to Seoi Nage).

              Most of what they do in the name of Seoi Nage is badly done Seoi Nage.

              I had a higher level black belt tell me once there is anold Ju Jutsu throw called "Ippon Seoi Goshi", however, I think he was pulling our leg(s).

              The hip action comes in because they do not have uke in best position to load them on their upper back and throw from there (which is Seoi Nage of various sorts). The whole process is incorrect. In the vernacular, they lack proper kuzushi, although you can have "proper" kuzushi and still end up doing a hip throw.

              There are entries for Seoi Nage (ippon or otherwise) that involve a hip-bump entry, but end up with uke being thrown from tori upper back/shoulder.

              It's funny, I wouldn't dare claim to teach BJJ. I teach Judo, although as we know there is plenty of crossover between the two. Two blue belts doing a demo of Judo nage waza (and badly at that) is really kind of... arrogant? Misguided? Ego/profit driven? Deluded ?

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                #22
                Originally posted by BKR View Post
                Some of them were, some were close enough for government work (to Seoi Nage).

                Most of what they do in the name of Seoi Nage is badly done Seoi Nage.

                I had a higher level black belt tell me once there is anold Ju Jutsu throw called "Ippon Seoi Goshi", however, I think he was pulling our leg(s).

                The hip action comes in because they do not have uke in best position to load them on their upper back and throw from there (which is Seoi Nage of various sorts). The whole process is incorrect. In the vernacular, they lack proper kuzushi, although you can have "proper" kuzushi and still end up doing a hip throw.

                There are entries for Seoi Nage (ippon or otherwise) that involve a hip-bump entry, but end up with uke being thrown from tori upper back/shoulder.

                It's funny, I wouldn't dare claim to teach BJJ. I teach Judo, although as we know there is plenty of crossover between the two. Two blue belts doing a demo of Judo nage waza (and badly at that) is really kind of... arrogant? Misguided? Ego/profit driven? Deluded ?
                That whole entry is taught in the Gracie basics of the punch block series. The step to the side and everything. I have been calling it a hip throw for the better part of the last decade.

                Regardless of there being hip bump entries would you say that is a back throw Or a hip throw the way they are doing it?

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  It's funny, I wouldn't dare claim to teach BJJ. I teach Judo, although as we know there is plenty of crossover between the two. Two blue belts doing a demo of Judo nage waza (and badly at that) is really kind of... arrogant? Misguided? Ego/profit driven? Deluded ?
                  They are teaching and instructing "Soft Judo" and the whole thing reads to me like some old frame bjj bullshit honestly.
                  What if this was a Kempo Black Belt of the third degree teaching a "Soft Judo" on Tues. and Thursdays? I mean seriously does this bullshit exist in real life at their school or is this just yet another shitty series of Youtube vids?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by XmasSpiritedAway View Post
                    They are teaching and instructing "Soft Judo" and the whole thing reads to me like some old frame bjj bullshit honestly.
                    Looking some clips in their YT channel I'd say these guys are "home schooled" in Judo since early age. Don't see any adult supervising/teaching but I think they are related to a guy named Monty Collier who seems to be into religious stuff.


                    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfn...mportant_sport
                    Last edited by DCS; 12/19/2016 6:17pm, .

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by DCS View Post
                      Looking some clips in their YT channel I'd say these guys are "home schooled" in Judo since early age. Don't see any adult supervising/teaching but I think they are related to a guy named Monty Collier who seems to be into religious stuff.


                      http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfn...mportant_sport
                      That's just ummm... creepy and not all that unexpected when I stop to think about it.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by XmasSpiritedAway View Post
                        That's just ummm... creepy and not all that unexpected when I stop to think about it.
                        Judo is way more important than religion.

                        You can pray god delivers you from the harm done by evil men or you can throw evil men on their head. I choose the latter.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                          That whole entry is taught in the Gracie basics of the punch block series. The step to the side and everything. I have been calling it a hip throw for the better part of the last decade.

                          Regardless of there being hip bump entries would you say that is a back throw Or a hip throw the way they are doing it?
                          I'll have to go back and watch it all again. As I recall now, some were clearly hip throws, others were kind of in between.

                          I'll reserve further comment after I watch it again.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by XmasSpiritedAway View Post
                            They are teaching and instructing "Soft Judo" and the whole thing reads to me like some old frame bjj bullshit honestly.
                            What if this was a Kempo Black Belt of the third degree teaching a "Soft Judo" on Tues. and Thursdays? I mean seriously does this bullshit exist in real life at their school or is this just yet another shitty series of Youtube vids?
                            The soft judo stuff, IMO, from the "originator", Mr. Izumi, was pretty much standard Judo. Nothing fancy or special IMO, but he's a red and white belt (or was, not sure if he is still around), so I could be wrong.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by DCS View Post
                              Looking some clips in their YT channel I'd say these guys are "home schooled" in Judo since early age. Don't see any adult supervising/teaching but I think they are related to a guy named Monty Collier who seems to be into religious stuff.


                              http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfn...mportant_sport
                              Those kids in the x-method of Judo? That guy has been around for a while, back on the old judo forum, known as the Red Beetle.

                              He's kinda wierd, flakey, as I recall. Home schooled Judo, yes, that's it. Was also a bit of a troll at times.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by BKR View Post
                                Those kids in the x-method of Judo? That guy has been around for a while, back on the old judo forum, known as the Red Beetle.
                                Found this Red Beetle in the Aikiforum too; a handful of decent posts about grappling and lots of religious rambling.

                                Also here: http://www.jiujitsuforums.com/discus...04/redirect/p1
                                Last edited by DCS; 12/20/2016 3:47pm, .

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